The New Klingons

[{ Emilia }]

Fictional alien species can change in just decades..

The look has changed because new show creators interpreted their look differently. Not because of evolution.

Fictional human representations remain constant...

Yes, because there is no need to reimagine humans. Humans are real so we know what they look like and we know that evolution doesn't work that fast.

Yeah that makes sense.

It absolutely does.

 

[Refuge]

That's just stupid. The creators randomly interpret an existing characterization and screw with it... because they can. No relevance no consistency required.

And we don't know what humans will always look like.

 

[{ Emilia }]

That's just stupid. The creators randomly interpret an existing characterization and screw with it... because they can.

Yes, it's called creative license. You find it in every franchise. Welcome to the magical world of TV and Cinema.

No relevance not consistency required.

Not really. Audience generally accepts that creative choices are made. Or did the Klingon change from TOS to TMP bother you a lot?

About consistency: I still see forehead ridges on the DSC Klingons, seems enough of a giveaway.

 

[Refuge]

Romulans sprouting forehead ridges between TOS and TNG?

Apparently such things can be attributed to inconsistent creative differences.. Who cares if it makes sense..

 

[{ Emilia }]

Apparently such things can be attributed to inconsistent creative differences.. Who cares if it makes sense..

I accept that the people making the show want to portray their creative vision. As long as they don't change anything major about the basic premise of the franchise, I don't see the problem. Cosmetic changes for existing alien races seem minor enough to me. Same for uniforms.
Getting rid of starships... now that would be a big change that would hurt the consistency for real.

 

[Refuge]

Audience generally accepts that creative choices are made. Or did the Klingon change from TOS to TMP bother you a lot?

This. I don't accept this. If the new writers want to show off with a new alien species.. good for them. However they are plagiarising a known quantity and ruining it. All this justification is crap.

 

[{ Emilia }]

This. I don't accept this.

I think you have made that abundantly clear. If the look of alien races is such a major factor to you, nobody is forcing you to watch the show.
I'm just explaining why many of us don't care.

However they are plagiarising a known quantity and ruining it.

Plagiarizing?

All this justification is crap.

How come you don't manage to find a consistent line of reasoning to properly debate our points then?

Look, I'm not sure why you are so angry. If the cosmetic changes bother you so much, nobody here is going to tell you that you have to like or watch the show. If you don't, that's just fine.
Your priorities and anger just do not convince me at all but I don't see how that should affect you either.

 

[Refuge]

Have you looked at the poll that accompanies this thread? The majority don't like them..

 

[{ Emilia }]

Have you looked at the poll that accompanies this thread? The majority don't like them..

There's a difference between not liking the look and not accepting it to the point of not watching the show.

I personally do not like the look of the new Klingons. I voted "I did not like them", for aesthetic reasons, not because of any inconsistency.

I'm critical of a few aspects of the new show. I just don't get very dramatic about it.

 

[BillJ]

Fictional alien species can change in just decades.. Fictional human representations remain constant...

"Fictional" is the key word. It is all make believe.

 

[Refuge]

There's a difference between not liking the look and not accepting it to the point of not watching the show.

I personally do not like the look of the new Klingons. I voted "I did not like them", for aesthetic reasons, not because of any inconsistency.

I'm critical of a few aspects of the new show. I just don't get very dramatic about it.

So you have been defending the look of the Klingons and ragging on me for my opinion.. and all along you think they look shit too?

Okay..

 

[{ Emilia }]

So you have been defending the look of the Klingons and ragging on me for my opinion.. and all along you think they look shit too?

Okay..

I have explained the obvious difference in my last post. Let me try this again:

I'm not much of a fan of the aesthetics of the new Klingons. I think they don't look great. I also don't think it's a big deal. The fact that they did change the Klingon look, doesn't bother me. That's creative license. This is not going to affect my enjoyment of the show at all.

You, on the other hand, were complaining about inconsistency and "plagiarism" (lulz) and making a huge deal out of it.

There is such an abyss between these two stances, we might as well be on different planets.

 

[Refuge]

I have explained the obvious difference in my last post. Let me try this again:

I'm not much of a fan of the aesthetics of the new Klingons. I think they don't look great. I also don't think it's a big deal. The fact that they did change the Klingon look, doesn't bother me. That's creative license. This is not going to affect my enjoyment of the show at all.

You, on the other hand, were complaining about inconsistency and "plagiarism" (lulz) and making a huge deal out of it.

There is such an abyss between these two stances, we might as well be on different planets.

You are right. I do feel protective of the known quantity and of the original creators' vision. Tweaks are one thing, full on changes .. well when you read what that Fuller guy said about wanting to change things it was like he was showing off and wasn't caring about any kind of relevance to what he was hoping to exploit. I disrespect him. His Klingons are what they are..

Different planet indeed.. and I will step away.

 

[BillJ]

You are right. I do feel protective of the known quantity and of the original creators' vision.

And that work isn't going anywhere. It still sits on my shelf.

 

[Ridcully]

Hmm 2017....not 1990'sh something, nor is it the 1980's or 70's...defently not 60's!
Stuff change, I like that they are even more alien, why resemble anything we have here in the first place?
Anyways we have only seen glimpses of what is taking place, they look ancient and quite different!

I think that they have made it all just abit more interesting, and that some things are not as rosy and straight cut as it used to be!
It seems that we will take a new road, and as it should be!
I think we all can agree that we do not need more of what used to be, as long as the "Trek" is taking us to strange "new" worlds...

This life is not utopia, nor will it probally ever be!
Space was always dangerous, as it is so vast that we cannot fanthom it!

I think that we are in for an interesting ride, and that people should take it for what it is!
And if you are unhappy, make some yourself
Writing is free, but takes time.
This is their version of the old bucket!

 

[BillJ]

There's no real reason to make anything new in a given universe, if any change is considered some kind of affront to the creators of the material. Does anyone think Gene Coon was disrespected when they changed the look of his creation in TMP?

The new Klingons (as is the show in general) are what they are, an interpretation of material by a new creative team. Some will like it, some won't. Some will treat it as "this is the way things were always supposed to look" (like the TMP Klingons), some will treat it as an alternate reality that spun off of the events of Star Trek: First Contact, some will treat it as a reboot. Long time fans who are open minded will give it a chance and make it work within the context of "Star Trek" if they are entertained.

 

[fireproof78]

You are right. I do feel protective of the known quantity and of the original creators' vision. Tweaks are one thing, full on changes .. well when you read what that Fuller guy said about wanting to change things it was like he was showing off and wasn't caring about any kind of relevance to what he was hoping to exploit. I disrespect him. His Klingons are what they are..

Different planet indeed.. and I will step away.

Even GR's "original vision" changed multiple times.

 

[{ Emilia }]

You are right. I do feel protective of the known quantity and of the original creators' vision. Tweaks are one thing, full on changes ..

... like the one from TOS to TMP or then to TWOK...

A whole bunch about the aesthetics changed between these three cornerstones.
So now I'm sure which original creators' vision we should really be referring to.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Have you looked at the poll that accompanies this thread? The majority don't like them..

A relatively slim majority... on a nerd-heavy forum whose membership represents a fraction of 1% of the total Trek viewing audience.

Clearly, the producers should be running scared over this backlash.

 

[fireproof78]

A relatively slim majority... on a nerd-heavy forum whose membership represents a fraction of 1% of the total Trek viewing audience.

Clearly, the producers should be running scared over this backlash.

I know I am.