The New Klingons

[Beagleman]

I'm generally with you guys on this but I'm kinda...not? Just give me one line one simple line that acknowledges the difference in appearance and move on from there and I'll be a happy camper. (BTW I find the idea of ancient Klingons reappearing fascinating, not as way to explain the redesign but from it's storytelling potential.)

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Captain: "Those don't look like any Klingons I've ever seen..."
Michael: "Sensors reading them as Klingon, sir."

Story continues without further mention. It's not necessary, but I wouldn't mind hearing something like that. And honestly, I don't think people are going to be like, 'NOPE! THEY JUST LOST A VIEWER.' This throwaway line would be ignored by the casual viewer, but fun for anyone in the know, like the Trials and Tribble-ations line about not speaking of it with outsiders.

Now if, later on in the season, it continues with:

Michael: "Captain I've been all over the comnet and the discussion and theories on why these Klingons appear different than what we have on record is complex and there doesn't seem to be consensus on it. I've brought up the records from an NX-01, Enterprise and THOSE Klingons are different too! They don't match up with our previously flat-foreheaded Klingons. This leads me to believe that..."

Then maybe they've jumped the shark.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Captain: "Those don't look like any Klingons I've ever seen..."
Michael: "Sensors reading them as Klingon, sir."

That's not an explanation, so eyes aren't glazing over.

However, what it does do is establish and thereby draw attention to these not being like previously encountered Klingons. What you've intended as a throwaway line therefore isn't actually throwaway, because you've just told the viewer that there's some sort of mystery in play. That needs to be addressed. In other words, it needs to kick off the whole plot, or at least a subplot. These Klingons need to be different for some reason crucial to at least some of the events about to unfold. Otherwise, you'd have a dangling thread, you've made it just a little bit harder to get into the show, and there's no reason to have mentioned it at all.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If DS9 can get away with doing a whole SCENE (in Trials and Tribble-ations) about the differing Klingons, then DSC can toss in one or two lines without a problem.

I'm not saying DSC *should* do this, but they'd hardly be the FIRST to do it.

 

[fireproof78]

If DS9 can get away with doing a whole SCENE (in Trials and Tribble-ations) about the differing Klingons, then DSC can toss in one or two lines without a problem.

I'm not saying DSC *should* do this, but they'd hardly be the FIRST to do it.

Does the ENT episode make it better or worse?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I admit I'm biased, because I actively enjoyed the ENT Klingon arc. And, IMHO, it provided a decent explanation for the appearances.

I suspect, however, that they wouldn't have done it in the first place had DS9 not forced the issue by mentioning it.

The point is that DS9 did a funny scene, and there weren't a whole lot of complaints. So if DSC does one or two lines, who the hell cares? If it's like the example that @Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs suggested, where's the harm in that? Wouldn't even slow the story down.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

If DS9 can get away with doing a whole SCENE (in Trials and Tribble-ations) about the differing Klingons, then DSC can toss in one or two lines without a problem.

I'm not saying DSC *should* do this, but they'd hardly be the FIRST to do it.

That had both kinds of Klingons in the same scene. Arguably, the line would reassure the viewer that, no, they were not confused as to who the Klingons were.

 

[fireproof78]

^ I admit I'm biased, because I actively enjoyed the ENT Klingon arc. And, IMHO, it provided a decent explanation for the appearances.

I suspect, however, that they wouldn't have done it in the first place had DS9 not forced the issue by mentioning it.

The point is that DS9 did a funny scene, and there weren't a whole lot of complaints. So if DSC does one or two lines, who the hell cares? If it's like the example that @Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs suggested, where's the harm in that? Wouldn't even slow the story down.

I don't have a problem with two lines. My concern, small though it may be, is if it slows down the pacing of the story.

I won't care either way, but the idea that it will not bother anyone is more to my point.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

That's not an explanation, so eyes aren't glazing over.

However, what it does do is establish and thereby draw attention to these not being like previously encountered Klingons. What you've intended as a throwaway line therefore isn't actually throwaway, because you've just told the viewer that there's some sort of mystery in play. That needs to be addressed. In other words, it needs to kick off the whole plot, or at least a subplot. These Klingons need to be different for some reason crucial to at least some of the events about to unfold. Otherwise, you'd have a dangling thread, you've made it just a little bit harder to get into the show, and there's no reason to have mentioned it at all.

This would depend on the context of the story. If they are, in fact, some other sect of Klingon or some unknown faction (which does not explicitly explain the difference in their faces and ridges, only that they are not our regular, everyday Klingon Empire Klingons), the line can also be interpreted as these Klingons dress differently, they have different haircuts, their manner of speech is different, they pimp-walk, their ships are shaped like bunnies, or whatever. It doesn't necessarily HAVE to pertain to them looking different from other productions of Star Trek, but be a tongue-in-cheek reference to those who are looking for that reference. Even if all other Klingons look this way the joke still works if these Klingons separate themselves culturally or politically or whatever. Now, if they turned out to be your regular everyday Klingons and members of the Klingon High Council, then yes, the joke line would not work and present a smoking gun that references nothing. Of this, I agree.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the idea that it will not bother anyone is more to my point.

It would be completely impossible to write an episode that literally will not bother anyone. Somebody is always going to be bothered by something - it's unavoidable. All you can do is tell the story you want to tell, and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Even if all other Klingons look this way the joke still works if these Klingons separate themselves culturally or politically or whatever. Now, if they turned out to be your regular everyday Klingons and members of the Klingon High Council, then yes, the joke line would not work and present a smoking gun that references nothing. Of this, I agree.

Right, my point was that now you have to show a difference, somehow, somewhere.

(I like the bunny-rabbit shaped ships.)

 

[fireproof78]

It would be completely impossible to write an episode that literally will not bother anyone. Somebody is always going to be bothered by something - it's unavoidable. All you can do is tell the story you want to tell, and let the chips fall where they may.

Indeed. You'll get no argument from me on that point.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That had both kinds of Klingons in the same scene. Arguably, the line would reassure the viewer that, no, they were not confused as to who the Klingons were.

Would have been pretty funny if (as I keep hearing) the original plan was to have Worf appear as a TOS Klingon during all scenes set in the past, and no one would ever notice the difference.

I'm glad they didn't do that, though, 'cos I really do like what ENT (and the novelverse) has done with the Klingon divergence. If DSC can put some added oomph into it, so much the better.

 

[Ing3nu]

My worry is a bit less with the explanation of why they look different and more about how the Actors are going to show facial expressions with so much prosthetic in place. It feels like body-language is going to be huge with the Klingons, rather than the faces, which might explain some of the casting.

There's been a redesign/tweak to the Klingons almost every time we get a new show/film. Eventually, people will stop asking "Who was your Captain" and they'll start asking "Which was your Klingon"

 

[Refuge]

Fuller, in his arrogant vanity failed. So typical that the current creators try to piss on something someone else did better than them before.

 

[fireproof78]

Fuller, in his arrogant vanity failed. So typical that the current creators try to piss on something someone else did better than them before.

Because clearly he was being disrespectful?

 

[Mudd]

Fuller, in his arrogant vanity failed.

Doesn't look like he failed at all - so far Discovery looks pretty good. Whether he's still involved or not, they've carried through on both his "reimagining" and on his concern for diversity.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Would have been pretty funny if (as I keep hearing) the original plan was to have Worf appear as a TOS Klingon during all scenes set in the past, and no one would ever notice the difference.

I'm glad they didn't do that, though, 'cos I really do like what ENT (and the novelverse) has done with the Klingon divergence. If DSC can put some added oomph into it, so much the better.

I would appreciate DSC addressing the matter very briefly, just to provide a bit of context. I gave up on ENT well before that show's take on the divergence.

 

[BillJ]

Fuller, in his arrogant vanity failed. So typical that the current creators try to piss on something someone else did better than them before.

Star Trek needed to be updated. Live with it... or don't.

 

[Refuge]

I was watching a panel on TV.. a morning show. Several previews of upcoming shows were being featured. So when Discovery had its turn, I kind of wondered what the comments were going to be. The panel consisted of all white people. One a lady in her early thirties, one a lady in her mid forties, one a lady in her seventies, and one a gent about forty. They kind of didn't have a reaction. That was disappointing. They wanted to talk about the Sheldon spin off instead. Later in the week George Takei chatted about his Star Trek days and I couldn't help but have a great affection to see this old school guy with his distinct voice and that memory of how Star Trek had.. theatrics. Color and hammy drama. Yes we are not going to get that now and nor should we but to get no reaction or a bland one? The trailer only came to life at the end. Maybe the likes of me won't live with a muted Star Trek but I won't be alone.