Not my forum, so I'm just gonna leave this here.
Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Their attempts to "level the playing field" by belittling men (many lines from Cat), or not holding all to the same standard (see the James/Maggie example) is far beyond ham-fisted. Its noting more than misusing a licensed property to vent weekly rants against the many things the showrunners hate.
True--she most resembles Trump--as seen in her ear burning any and everyone in any position of power, and broadcasting her speech as if she knows anything about how to motivate people in a situation she knows nothing about. Very Trump-ian acts of egomania and generally offensive behavior.
If you're gonna complain that Cat said guys like to measure dicks, it would help your cause if you didn't also complain that Maggie has a bigger dick than James in the same post.
So, tit for tat is fine. Nevermind how childish that mindset is (on the showrunners' part) or how it does not foster a mature way of dealing with achieving equality between the genders.
If you're gonna complain that Cat said guys like to measure dicks, it would help your cause if you didn't also complain that Maggie has a bigger dick than James in the same post.
Missing the point again. Its about the double standard of James--the experienced, enhanced costume-wearing individual being trashed for being out of his league with aliens, yet no one questions ordinary cop Maggie doing the same sans any special abilities. There's none of the kind of Cat offensive BS in that.
...but the double standard remains.
Still to this day most shows, especially genre shows, fail at the very basic level of having an even split of men/women roles in the main cast. Even if all you said was true, which I absolutely don't agree it is, do you not at least realize how hypocritical and condescending it sounds to complain about equality here?
Maggie is a trained police officer, from a special division that deals with aliens and weird things.
For all your talk of double standards and bias, it's a shame you don't recognize yours.
I have skipped a couple of pages, but since we haven't left the topic too much... I am also in the camp of thinking the politics are too over the top.
SInce this is the TREK bbs...I isn't one of the things we loved about Trek was how they were able to stories , with METAPHORS, so we weren't hit over the head with how we ought to think.
So unless I was mistaken in that I thought the Clinton campaign had stolen Supergirl's 1st season slogan, these last few episodes make it seem like the "Stronger Together" slogan was planted by the CLinton campaign to use later
My 12 year old daughter at first was excited about SUpergirl, but even she has been turned off by the extreme politics.
DId they NEED to mention how all 3 women were the most powerful on the planet (it could have been 4 if they could have found a way to add in Mrs. Luthor in that scene). Wouldn't it have just been amazing to have that as just "fact"
SInce this is the TREK bbs...I isn't one of the things we loved about Trek was how they were able to stories , with METAPHORS, so we weren't hit over the head with how we ought to think.
So unless I was mistaken in that I thought the Clinton campaign had stolen Supergirl's 1st season slogan, these last few episodes make it seem like the "Stronger Together" slogan was planted by the CLinton campaign to use later
My 12 year old daughter at first was excited about SUpergirl, but even she has been turned off by the extreme politics.
DId they NEED to mention how all 3 women were the most powerful on the planet (it could have been 4 if they could have found a way to add in Mrs. Luthor in that scene). Wouldn't it have just been amazing to have that as just "fact"
Equality is not strictly achieved through numbers, but how they're presented. On that note, The Walking Dead and even Z Nation have prominent, strong female characters. Like the males, sometimes they can be written in a bad way (just to make A lead to B no matter how they get there), but I would say these highly visible series do well in the treatment of female characters, and none have to tear down men to be strong.
Its hypocritical in the extreme for some who yell the loudest about being advocates of fair treatment, yet deliberately leap over glaring examples of double standards / misandry over the two seasons of this series. It carries the stench of some wanting to stand in judgement from on high, but are just as deserving of being judged for not truly believing / practicing what they preach.
Maggie is a trained police officer, from a special division that deals with aliens and weird things.
For all your talk of double standards and bias, it's a shame you don't recognize yours.
She is a plainclothes human cop, so no matter her division, she is more at risk for harm than anyone wearing an enhanced suit. There's no getting around that. Its no different than Coulson foolishly trying to face off against Loki in The Avengers, when others--from his own superpowered brother to the ultimate enhanced human (Captain America) had more than enough trouble with him. Stark was correct in his statement in the wake of Coulson's then-death.
So, once again, its hypocritical in the extreme for some who yell the loudest about being advocates of fair treatment, yet deliberately leap over glaring examples of double standards and misandry. Probably difficult to see that when sitting from the throne of judgement so high above the world.
Agreed.
Right...and hitting over the head was a problem starting with TNG, with its "We know best" delivery from the Enterprise crew, which is just one of the many reasons the series has not aged well.
It speaks volumes whenever a child finds that too much to bear.
Interesting observation regarding the clumsy/heavy-handed approach to such matters on this series.
Ah, the classic "look, there's one woman, what more could you possibly want!?!?"
Yep that's me up there, hanging out with Cat Grant, collecting man-tears into clouds
That's how we make rain, you know.
Here is how I think the show has done in regards to social issue's. I think they have been only half successful in terms of doing it well. The Alex/Maggie romance has been a home run. They might be the most intresting romantic couple on tv today. That's because they took their time and seem to explore many different facets of their romance from Alex coming out of the closet to Maggie having to trust her.
The Trump/refuge/feminist issue though has at times felt more like a afterschool special were the biggest thing you remember is the various real world catchphrases they insert into the show.
I mean what have they really had to say other than Trump is bad and refuge's should be treated fairly. Everyone knows this already.
Female empowerment has been done decent for the most part only hurt somewhat by the fact that their is no really strong male characters to play off which makes it feel one sided which is why I think some guys feel like they are being insulted. This show could really use a Spike character like on "Buffy" or Ares on "Xena." which leads to my biggest complaint.
Everyone on this show is just to nice. It's a show about a bunch of nice friendly people who basically agree with each other on everything. What this show needs, especially if it wants to do social commentary is get itself some assholes or people who have some really messed up flaws who see the world in a different way.
Look at people who usually are best at social commentary. It's people like Louis CK or Chris Rock or in the past George Carlin. On tv it comes from shows like "Veep" or "MASH" or "All in the Family." or "Glee" and the list goes on.
That is because if your going to say something that might be PC it's better when it comes from someone you would least expect it or someone who you feel is more well rounded than just being nothing more than a goody goody liberal sterotype. When it comes from super nice people it feels preachy and even if you agree with them you sometimes want them to just shut up.
Jason
The Trump/refuge/feminist issue though has at times felt more like a afterschool special were the biggest thing you remember is the various real world catchphrases they insert into the show.
I mean what have they really had to say other than Trump is bad and refuge's should be treated fairly. Everyone knows this already.
Female empowerment has been done decent for the most part only hurt somewhat by the fact that their is no really strong male characters to play off which makes it feel one sided which is why I think some guys feel like they are being insulted. This show could really use a Spike character like on "Buffy" or Ares on "Xena." which leads to my biggest complaint.
Everyone on this show is just to nice. It's a show about a bunch of nice friendly people who basically agree with each other on everything. What this show needs, especially if it wants to do social commentary is get itself some assholes or people who have some really messed up flaws who see the world in a different way.
Look at people who usually are best at social commentary. It's people like Louis CK or Chris Rock or in the past George Carlin. On tv it comes from shows like "Veep" or "MASH" or "All in the Family." or "Glee" and the list goes on.
That is because if your going to say something that might be PC it's better when it comes from someone you would least expect it or someone who you feel is more well rounded than just being nothing more than a goody goody liberal sterotype. When it comes from super nice people it feels preachy and even if you agree with them you sometimes want them to just shut up.
Jason
I seem to remember a human, plain clothes MALE cop dying after running out of the police department with his trusty shotgun as the Aliens beamed down.
Plain clothes Maggie picked up the weapon of her fallen comrade and kept shooting as she ran towards danger.
Why not diss the male cop for his ineptude in death, his unreasonableness in the face of unsurmontable odds?
Maggie is a gold shield carrying detective in National City's science police division. She's spent years not only catching bad guys, but in collecting the evidence correctly in order to put them away, as she demonstrated to Alex the first day they met.
James was a newspaper photog and then magazine art director who chronicled the police beat and the activities of his super-powered friends.
He wears a super-powered suit and has the outsized ego that goes with it, but to equate him with a professional officer does a disservice to that dead MALE cop and the living female detective defending their city from alien invaders. It's the reason TPTB spent nearly the entire 1st season training Kara to be at least as skilled a hero as her unpowered foster sister.
As for the eye rolling over the line about mentioning how the three most important women (women? Or people? I can't recall) on the planet were Rhea, Marsdin and Cat...isn't that statement at least 2/3rds fact and just 1/3 hyperbole? I would think that the leader of the free world WAS the most powerful person on the planet and Rhea the Queen of an invading armada was equally as powerful. Cat just has the biggest ego on the planet.
It is correct that equality isn't just in numbers, but how they are presented.
As with male characters, female characters need to be heroes and villians, normal plain clothes "detectives" and super-powered beings. Political heavy weights , big deal CEO's and hardworking single parents just trying to get by.
I loved Voyager, her female Captain, female Chief Engineer and female BORG astrometrics dept. Not to mention their main adversary, the BORG Queen.
I loved Xena Warrior Princess, with her 2 female Co-leads, their Amazon allies, and those women I loved to hate... Callisto, Alti, Najara to name the unholy trinity.
And I love Supergirl and her sister Alex, her "is she or isn't she" blind boss Cat Grant, the former romantic and professional season 1 rival Lucy Lane, her "is she or isn't she good" season 2 best friend Lena and even the woman who's stolen her big sister's heart, Maggie. I also equally enjoy hating Rhea and Lillian.
I love computer savy Wynn, who unlike Harry Kim in Voyager finally got it right in the love dept, I loved to hate the evil Max Lord and wished he'd return. I love and admire the strength of character and steadfastness of Jonn Jonzz, not to mention the protectiveness he feels for the Danvers sisters. I just plain hate General Lane and Cyborg Superman, while after many eps I have finally come to like Monel, the erstwhile Prince of Daxam. Snapper Carr is a consistent crotchety editor... but he's no Lou Grant or for that matter Cat Grant... who has been sorely missed this year. And James Olsen made a big mistake when he put on that helmet and started cracking heads. He was best as a conscience for Kara & a journalistic colleague at Catco, not a masked crimefighting vigilante on the streets of National City.
Earhart once remarked on the news headlines she made everytime she crash landed in a farmers field. Headlines made because she was a FEMALE pilot that crashed, not because a biplane crashed. She hoped for a day that women flying would be as normal as men and the time would come that her crashes would be no more remarkable than a male pilot's biplane crashing ( something that happened with regularity in the 1920s).
SUPERGIRL is trying to be as "normal" on the TV landscape as its CW cohort, ARROW, FLASH, THE LEGENDS OF TOMORROW. "Normal" if you think a woman who is faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive and can leap tall buildings in a single bound... is normal.
Heck, after all that time flashbacking to the island, Oliver has trouble being normal... and he isn't even an alien.
Just ask Diggle and Felicity.
Plain clothes Maggie picked up the weapon of her fallen comrade and kept shooting as she ran towards danger.
Why not diss the male cop for his ineptude in death, his unreasonableness in the face of unsurmontable odds?
Maggie is a gold shield carrying detective in National City's science police division. She's spent years not only catching bad guys, but in collecting the evidence correctly in order to put them away, as she demonstrated to Alex the first day they met.
James was a newspaper photog and then magazine art director who chronicled the police beat and the activities of his super-powered friends.
He wears a super-powered suit and has the outsized ego that goes with it, but to equate him with a professional officer does a disservice to that dead MALE cop and the living female detective defending their city from alien invaders. It's the reason TPTB spent nearly the entire 1st season training Kara to be at least as skilled a hero as her unpowered foster sister.
As for the eye rolling over the line about mentioning how the three most important women (women? Or people? I can't recall) on the planet were Rhea, Marsdin and Cat...isn't that statement at least 2/3rds fact and just 1/3 hyperbole? I would think that the leader of the free world WAS the most powerful person on the planet and Rhea the Queen of an invading armada was equally as powerful. Cat just has the biggest ego on the planet.
It is correct that equality isn't just in numbers, but how they are presented.
As with male characters, female characters need to be heroes and villians, normal plain clothes "detectives" and super-powered beings. Political heavy weights , big deal CEO's and hardworking single parents just trying to get by.
I loved Voyager, her female Captain, female Chief Engineer and female BORG astrometrics dept. Not to mention their main adversary, the BORG Queen.
I loved Xena Warrior Princess, with her 2 female Co-leads, their Amazon allies, and those women I loved to hate... Callisto, Alti, Najara to name the unholy trinity.
And I love Supergirl and her sister Alex, her "is she or isn't she" blind boss Cat Grant, the former romantic and professional season 1 rival Lucy Lane, her "is she or isn't she good" season 2 best friend Lena and even the woman who's stolen her big sister's heart, Maggie. I also equally enjoy hating Rhea and Lillian.
I love computer savy Wynn, who unlike Harry Kim in Voyager finally got it right in the love dept, I loved to hate the evil Max Lord and wished he'd return. I love and admire the strength of character and steadfastness of Jonn Jonzz, not to mention the protectiveness he feels for the Danvers sisters. I just plain hate General Lane and Cyborg Superman, while after many eps I have finally come to like Monel, the erstwhile Prince of Daxam. Snapper Carr is a consistent crotchety editor... but he's no Lou Grant or for that matter Cat Grant... who has been sorely missed this year. And James Olsen made a big mistake when he put on that helmet and started cracking heads. He was best as a conscience for Kara & a journalistic colleague at Catco, not a masked crimefighting vigilante on the streets of National City.
Earhart once remarked on the news headlines she made everytime she crash landed in a farmers field. Headlines made because she was a FEMALE pilot that crashed, not because a biplane crashed. She hoped for a day that women flying would be as normal as men and the time would come that her crashes would be no more remarkable than a male pilot's biplane crashing ( something that happened with regularity in the 1920s).
SUPERGIRL is trying to be as "normal" on the TV landscape as its CW cohort, ARROW, FLASH, THE LEGENDS OF TOMORROW. "Normal" if you think a woman who is faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive and can leap tall buildings in a single bound... is normal.
Heck, after all that time flashbacking to the island, Oliver has trouble being normal... and he isn't even an alien.
Just ask Diggle and Felicity.
I imagine that part of that has to do with the values that Star Trek embraces. It embraces multiculturalism and messages of equality that were very anti-conservative in the sixties. Today it embraces sexual orientation equality in the same way. It is a show that openly preaches against capitalist business practices that put corporations first.
The irony of being conservative is that it is the losing side of history. The needle of morality and values continually moves toward change and always has. So what was considered conservative values in the sixties has now changed greatly. In fifty years conservatives won't care about a gay Sulu any more than they care about a black Starfleet officer today.
As someone who thinks Trump is absolutely deserving of everything they throw at him and more (and who considers gender equality in Hollywood to be a huge deal that is taking far too long to be realized), I still think the balance of this show is off kilter to the point of being somewhat detrimental to the story.
On the gender side of things, it's not the hot-bed of man-hating, hypocrisy that some posters seem to think it is - in fact I would say it is still by far more of an asset than a liability in the context of Hollywood as a whole, which absolutely is woefully biased towards men. But recognizing that does not automatically absolve it from all criticism. The treatment of Guardian is a clear double standard, all the more bizarre for the fact that it serves no purpose at all. And, no, treating James as equivalent to trained cops is not in any way disrepectful to cops, because he is a superhero on a superhero show. Being as least as god as a cop is the whole point. Lines such as Cat's measuring diatribe are mean-spirited to the point of being kind of disgusting and were even blatantly undermined by the fact that the entire situation was more ridiculous than anything I've ever seen before. Not even the dumbest, most steroid obsessed action movie would have the President flying Air Force 1 straight at an alien mothership, but on this show that's apparently an example of a woman's superior leadership capabilities. These are small moments (but not entirely isolated ones in the history of the show) and there are a ton of much better moments to be found that make the show's message of equality really great, but that doesn't mean I don't wish the writers had had the decent sense to leave them out.
As for the Trump side of things, it's just so over-the-top - and, no, the lack of subtlety is absolutely not the 'appeal' of this show. It's by far the worst part of the show and at times barely even tolerable, regardless of the subject. And, by this point, it's gotten seriously tiresome. Use your tv show as a platform to send messages, by all means. But do you really want the legacy of a show about *Supergirl* to be constantly tied back into diatribes against Trump? Surely there are more messages it would be important for a character like Supergirl to look at than just this one, especially since each new iteration is nothing more than a blatant repetition of what the show has already done. It's time to move on already.
On the gender side of things, it's not the hot-bed of man-hating, hypocrisy that some posters seem to think it is - in fact I would say it is still by far more of an asset than a liability in the context of Hollywood as a whole, which absolutely is woefully biased towards men. But recognizing that does not automatically absolve it from all criticism. The treatment of Guardian is a clear double standard, all the more bizarre for the fact that it serves no purpose at all. And, no, treating James as equivalent to trained cops is not in any way disrepectful to cops, because he is a superhero on a superhero show. Being as least as god as a cop is the whole point. Lines such as Cat's measuring diatribe are mean-spirited to the point of being kind of disgusting and were even blatantly undermined by the fact that the entire situation was more ridiculous than anything I've ever seen before. Not even the dumbest, most steroid obsessed action movie would have the President flying Air Force 1 straight at an alien mothership, but on this show that's apparently an example of a woman's superior leadership capabilities. These are small moments (but not entirely isolated ones in the history of the show) and there are a ton of much better moments to be found that make the show's message of equality really great, but that doesn't mean I don't wish the writers had had the decent sense to leave them out.
As for the Trump side of things, it's just so over-the-top - and, no, the lack of subtlety is absolutely not the 'appeal' of this show. It's by far the worst part of the show and at times barely even tolerable, regardless of the subject. And, by this point, it's gotten seriously tiresome. Use your tv show as a platform to send messages, by all means. But do you really want the legacy of a show about *Supergirl* to be constantly tied back into diatribes against Trump? Surely there are more messages it would be important for a character like Supergirl to look at than just this one, especially since each new iteration is nothing more than a blatant repetition of what the show has already done. It's time to move on already.
Continuing to deliberately misread in order to post nonsense based on a one-sided agenda.
Gotcha.
I seem to remember a human, plain clothes MALE cop dying after running out of the police department with his trusty shotgun as the Aliens beamed down.
Plain clothes Maggie picked up the weapon of her fallen comrade and kept shooting as she ran towards danger.
Why not diss the male cop for his ineptude in death, his unreasonableness in the face of unsurmontable odds?
See the reference to The Avengers' Coulson being an ordinary man (no enhanced suit, or superpowers) out of his league with Loki. Same situation with Maggie. No amount of training prevents exposed human flesh from the kind of attacks delivered by aliens.
"Outsized ego?"
Not remotely close to the way James is presented. As the Guardian, he knows why an enhanced suit is necessary, which makes him wise, not one with an inflated ego. He's the most level headed, sensible character on the show, and hardly the chest out type. He's one the few in the city actually equipped to face greater threats.
True, and presenting strong female characters can be achieved without tearing down males. The Walking Dead has no problem with that. If anything, that series can run into trouble with those created (initially) to support bigger characters, and never independently developed. But that happens to both males and females from time to time, so no gender is consciously short changed by the show runners.
In superhero fiction on screen, that's already happened; next to no one is placing the forthcoming Wonder Woman movie (or the character) in a box only distinguished by gender. She's simply (and correctly) seen as one of DC's "big three"-- one of the flagship characters of the company. In Batman v. Superman-Dawn of Justice, W.W. made her mark in spectacular fashion, and not once did the script need to apply any double standards of treatment and/or belittle men for W.W. to be her own, dynamic force in the story. I expect the same in the MCU's Captain Marvel film.
I agree. I'd even suggest that WW was the best part of DoJ for exactly that reason.
That is quite literally how I would describe your analysis of the show...
How do Daxamites powers work in this universe. Reason i ask is if its same as its always been Yellow sun radiation absorption. Shouldn't Mon-El with his weeks/months of time on Earth be far ahead of his fellow Daxamites and in the last episode where he needed Lena's help in his struggle with the guard, he should have been able to overpower him with ease due to having more time under our sun ?.
Same as when mummy spanked him at the fortress of solitude
Same as when mummy spanked him at the fortress of solitude
I think the idea that the power builds up gradually over time is more a product of the late-'80s John Byrne reboot. When the yellow-sun explanation was invented in the Silver Age (replacing the original explanation that Krypton was a higher-gravity planet and its inhabitants more "highly evolved" than humans, just as superpowered on Krypton as on Earth), it was generally portrayed as something that kicked in almost instantly; baby Kal-El was flying around the orphanage practically from day one.
As far as this show is concerned, the power buildup seems to take a matter of hours or days of sun exposure, not weeks or months. After Kara drained all her yellow-sun energy after the "Solar Flare" heat-vision discharge against Red Tornado, it took her only about a week to recover her power -- and apparently it took less time to recover after Cadmus made her flare out again.
