Suder

[Refuge]

I'm sure he has been referenced A LOT but I'm watching 'Basics' and it kind of breaks my heart that Suder wanted to impress Janeway and he loses it. Why do we feel pathos for what was a sociopathic killer when he becomes vulnerable and raw? He wanted to contribute to Voayger.. he developed an orchid for Tuvok.. he was changed and yet doomed.

BasicsII is one of the best episodes in the series. From the death of Hogan, to the Doctor trying to fool Seska. To Seska finding out Chakotay was not her child's father. Seeing the crew making fire from sawing off their hair is funny and I felt for Chakotay, he must have felt so responsible for the mess they were in. I really admire Janeway remaining their Captain when all seemed lost. Paris the wild card..

One Hologram and one Sociopath. Poor Suder he knew he would need to kill to give back to Voyager. Those black eyes of his. Dropping to the ground after bringing back a dead Kazon, the Doctor soothing him. Mustering his courage to wipe out the Kazon and enable Paris, only to die.. I wonder if the writers knew ahead to keep Suder as an ace to play. Worked for me!

 

[Tracy Trek]

And he looks so defeated when he had to shoot all the Kazon in the engine room. Like he feels his whole rehabilitation was for naught.

My head canon about Suder is he was one of those Betazoids whose brain got short-circuted because he developed his mental abilities too early. Tam Elbrun from TNG's Tin Man touched on this. Anyway, my personal theory is that this is what happened to Suder and it caused a condition where he couldn't feel any thoughts or emotions at all. Or maybe he couldn't turn his telepathic abilities off and that drove him insane.

 

[JRoss]

I heard they killed off Suder, Jonas and Seska because they were all created by one guy who left. Terrible. We could have used more Suder but he did go out well.

 

[Tracy Trek]

I heard they killed off Suder, Jonas and Seska because they were all created by one guy who left. Terrible. We could have used more Suder but he did go out well.

Was that the producer who wanted Seska's baby to actually be Chakotay's son? Based on the appearance of the baby they cast in the role, I thought he did look like a Native American/Hispanic infant. Seska even said to the Dr. when he told her Cullah was the father, "But he looks just like..."

 

[Prax]

Maybe the Doctor lied. He lied to her about Sudor. he's got a lot of Zimmerman in him. Maybe it really was Chakotay's.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Lon Suder was an excellent character. If only they made Brad Dourif into a regular!

 

[Tracy Trek]

Maybe the Doctor lied. He lied to her about Sudor. he's got a lot of Zimmerman in him. Maybe it really was Chakotay's.

I read somewhere on this board that it was suppose to be Chakotay's son, but I think it was one producer left and another one didn't want to continue with certain storylines.

 

[Trekkin]

They were going to kill the baby and Culluh at one point, weren't they?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

My head canon about Suder is he was one of those Betazoids whose brain got short-circuted because he developed his mental abilities too early. Tam Elbrun from TNG's Tin Man touched on this. Anyway, my personal theory is that this is what happened to Suder and it caused a condition where he couldn't feel any thoughts or emotions at all. Or maybe he couldn't turn his telepathic abilities off and that drove him insane.

IIRC, Suder's problem was that he had NO mental abilities.

I mean, he's obviously not telepathic, and he once said that he's not empathic either (he said that he can't read others' emotions and can hardly read his own, either). So perhaps it was the lack of traditional Betazoid mental powers that drove him nuts - i.e. other kids teasing him so much that he just snapped.

 

[Jayson1]

I heard they killed off Suder, Jonas and Seska because they were all created by one guy who left. Terrible. We could have used more Suder but he did go out well.

The guy in question was proably Micheal Pillar. I've never heard this one rumor but I do know he wanted to make changes to show and was turned down. He wanted Suder to be a reacurring character and he also wanted to show to resemble more contemporary shows with things like faster pacing and shorter scene's. I also know Jonas was his idea and people also tried to resist anything like arc based stories.

Jason

 

[Tracy Trek]

So perhaps it was the lack of traditional Betazoid mental powers that drove him nuts - i.e. other kids teasing him so much that he just snapped.

That would certainly be a major handicap in the society he grew up in.

Does that mean in the episode Counterpoint that the writers had contradicted themselves when "what's his name" asked Janeway where Tuvok, Vorik, another crewperson and Suder were? And she lied and said they were all dead. Implying that the Devore thought he had been a telepath. And if they had gotten into Voyager's database which Janeway altered to hid Tuvok, Vorik, etc., why wasn't Stadi (a telepath) included in that list?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I'm sure the Devore (as suspicious and paranoid about telepaths as they were) just assumed all Betazoids had equal telepathic abilities. They wouldn't believe it if someone told them Suder had none.

As for Stadi, she died in the pilot episode. So there'd be no reason to hide her from the database.

 

[Refuge]

The guy in question was proably Micheal Pillar. I've never heard this one rumor but I do know he wanted to make changes to show and was turned down. He wanted Suder to be a reacurring character and he also wanted to show to resemble more contemporary shows with things like faster pacing and shorter scene's. I also know Jonas was his idea and people also tried to resist anything like arc based stories.

Jason

I've quoted this before from Michael Piller regards 'Tattoo' but it is reflective of his mindset. " 'Tattoo' was written in sort of a rage...right in the middle of my battle about pace. I set out to prove that there was a way to tell stories without writing long scenes and I turned in a script that had 190 or 200 scenes. Look at all the levels you're dealing with–flashbacks, a mystery, a culture and an issue of history–there are so many things going on."

Interesting that if he did have issues about shorter scenes in reality as a writer it is hard not to.. write.

Suder almost had to die to achieve the pathos.

 

[Lynx]

"Basics" is one of my top 5 favorites and Suder was a great character.

 

[DamarsKanar]

In a way Suder's death is beautiful and achieves pathos but it would have been nice to develop his character further over the course of the show...after all he had done to help the crew, was this redemptive enough to put him on a path of freedom and reintegration (would this even be ethical given he murdered someone? Could the captain/crew ever forgive him?). Did his violent actions in Basics confirm the inevitability of relapse even if it was for a good cause? If he had stayed on, there might even have been the possibility of exploring his Betazoid nature - what does it mean to be a Betazoid like him and how did that happen? Did he have this violence in him because he had suppressed his telepathic abilities for some reason? Was it ever possible to use that side of him (even just sensing others' emotions) to control his own violent urges?
I just think keeping a prisoner, a murderer, and particularly a Betazoid one, for the long haul would have created so many interesting stories and questions.
It's a shame, although his final episodes really are great and it is so sweet that he makes the orchid and just wants to help out..

 

[Refuge]

I was left with that sense too. What could've been.. It affected me more than say Repentance. Tom acknowledging him, the Doctor saying Tuvok would have been proud. The irony in a way. I don't believe Suder would have reverted to being a sociopath but he had to draw upon the ability to kill like one. More so with the Kazon he killed first. You could see his despair. The final shoot out was military like.

Tuvok wished peace for him because he didn't have it in life.

 

[Tundra Saint]

I wish they had made Suder a recurring character, I found him very interesting. He ended up being more memorable to me than any of the other minor characters like that Alaya guy who appeared in 123 episodes but only spoke like 5 times.

 

[Voth commando1]

Suder was an interesting character-I was greatly touched when Tuvok wished him peace at his funeral.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Suder was an interesting character-I was greatly touched when Tuvok wished him peace at his funeral.

This scene was simple but moving. From his inner struggle to his heroic attitude towards Kazons until his sacrifice, Suder was able to gain Tuvok's respect and ‎ that is not nothing ‎as we have seen during the journey of 7 years.

What surprised though, was to see Chakotay/B'Elena's utter indifference towards Suder, especially after what he has done (either after the murder of a crew member the latter had committed onboard or after learning how he has heroically behaved/died facing the Kazons). I mean, no matter how bizarre Suder was, he was nonetheless a member of their former crew and just as such., it would have been nice, especially at the end, to see the remaining Maquis crew ‎pay their last tribute to a man, who until his death, ‎has been a mystery (especially because they have always kept their distance from him).

 

[Voth commando1]

Chakotay was grieving over Seska at the same time IYR.

As for B'llanna I don't think she was close to him.