Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Hard to do when a major arc for season 2 is about immigration.
Lead actress Melissa Benoist has been pretty clear on the subject...
A couple of other points:
Why is it "disrespectful to the audience" to express a political or philosophical point of view? Nothing could be further from the truth. What's disrespectful is assuming the audience can't handle being asked to think about something more substantive that who slept with whom or who punched what. I know, the modern sentiment is that anyone who expresses a point of view you don't agree with is attacking you, but that's nonsense. It's only by listening to ideas we don't already know, by considering every side of a question, that we can learn and expand our minds. Politics done right is a dialogue, not a turf war. Fiction has always been a medium for conducting that dialogue through allegory and symbolism. Heck, even a lot of ancient myths and legends are actually political allegories whose underlying meanings we no longer recognize because we don't have the context.
Second, why should all superhero shows do things the same way? That makes no sense. Superhero fiction includes everything from Teen Titans Go! to Watchmen, everything from the silliest fluff to the darkest, most sophisticated literature. Any single concept can be and should be explored in many different ways by different works. That's what keeps the genre interesting, the sheer diversity of approaches that it allows. Especially now, when there are well over a dozen different superhero shows on television, it would be a waste if they all did things the same way.
Right. Joss Whedon has said that Mal Reynolds of Firefly is someone whose views he doesn't share and that he'd probably be uncomfortable having over for dinner, but he found Mal an interesting character to write about, partly because it let him explore a point of view so different from his own.
Although I think it's safe to say that the producers of Supergirl are expressing their own political views. Though as I've said, that's in the grand tradition that started with Siegel and Shuster themselves.
Why is it "disrespectful to the audience" to express a political or philosophical point of view? Nothing could be further from the truth. What's disrespectful is assuming the audience can't handle being asked to think about something more substantive that who slept with whom or who punched what. I know, the modern sentiment is that anyone who expresses a point of view you don't agree with is attacking you, but that's nonsense. It's only by listening to ideas we don't already know, by considering every side of a question, that we can learn and expand our minds. Politics done right is a dialogue, not a turf war. Fiction has always been a medium for conducting that dialogue through allegory and symbolism. Heck, even a lot of ancient myths and legends are actually political allegories whose underlying meanings we no longer recognize because we don't have the context.
Second, why should all superhero shows do things the same way? That makes no sense. Superhero fiction includes everything from Teen Titans Go! to Watchmen, everything from the silliest fluff to the darkest, most sophisticated literature. Any single concept can be and should be explored in many different ways by different works. That's what keeps the genre interesting, the sheer diversity of approaches that it allows. Especially now, when there are well over a dozen different superhero shows on television, it would be a waste if they all did things the same way.
Right. Joss Whedon has said that Mal Reynolds of Firefly is someone whose views he doesn't share and that he'd probably be uncomfortable having over for dinner, but he found Mal an interesting character to write about, partly because it let him explore a point of view so different from his own.
Although I think it's safe to say that the producers of Supergirl are expressing their own political views. Though as I've said, that's in the grand tradition that started with Siegel and Shuster themselves.
I wonder if some of the arguments about the show being to liberal comes down more to the show's quality than the subject manner. Years ago you had a show like "Buffy" that could be just as poltical but what they also had was better writer's and better actor's.
"Supergirl" is a good show but I don't think it can be called a great show. In fact I don't even think it close to being the best of the superhero shows on the CW. You can end up having moments that are supose to be empowering or clever insight instead come off as a preachy insult simply because the writer wasn't up to the task.
Jason
"Supergirl" is a good show but I don't think it can be called a great show. In fact I don't even think it close to being the best of the superhero shows on the CW. You can end up having moments that are supose to be empowering or clever insight instead come off as a preachy insult simply because the writer wasn't up to the task.
Jason
It's not much different. For the most part, the show has been fine. A little annoying with the Alex subplot, but other than that, no real complaints--until last night's episode. An easily fixable problem that could have been fixed by cutting maybe five sentences.
Not at all. If you know Trump's slogan, plus the fact that the left is going around saying "resist," you can see the attack on Trump and his voters. Plus, just because Trump is not an evil dictator doesn't mean that the extremist writers don't want to portray their fictional characters as such.
To answer your first question, it's because this is nothing new. Extreme writers have been attacking conservatives and portraying them as evil, stupid, and getting it all wrong for decades. This is not a Trump thing at all. If a different Republican had won, the same venom would be spewed, just like it was at Bush.
Trump and the alt right are two different things. That's a problem right there. The alt-right is NOT representative of conservatives. Not one bit. Liberals are closer to conservatives than the alt-right.
What did last night's episode have to do with healthcare, regardless of where you stand on the issue? And just the idea that you believe that you can compare Trump to Hitler not only shows that not only is Trump being mischaracterized, but you are minimizing just how horrible Hitler was.
This isn't a political thread, and I want to keep it more focused on Supergirl itself. So let's agree not to debate whatever side of whatever issue comes up. There are places for those conversations, just like there are places for them on TV.
They didn't just force their politics on their audience, they shilled for the democrat party by name. That's really not right here.
You're speaking as if the left has some sort of monopoly on social change and right versus wrong. The right does have an issue with discrimination. Many of the landmark cases and laws that worked on civil rights were actually opposed by Democrats and championed by Republicans. Republicans have been at the front of these kinds of changes, and Hollywood tends to forget that.
Justice is NOT a liberal cause alone.
It's not really a shock that the more the left changes these characters, the worse the DC movies have done. When David Goyer wrote a story where Superman renounced his American citizenship, it angered a lot of people. Then they let the guy write the movie.
I'm noticing that the posts are getting a little angrier. They shouldn't. I think if the show was spouting a conservative agenda, the left would be just as disappointed. The attitude of "who cares what you think, it's our way or don't watch" is not really the best way to get a point across. It's actually a big turn off, and ironically, about as far from what liberals think they are in terms of tolerance.
Another person mentioned a 1966 Batman episode that skewered politics. I've seen that one many times, and at no point was a political side taken. It was more of an insult of politicians in general, and there's nothing wrong with that. But the whole "conservatives have to be evil and we must shill for the democrats" thing is just very old.
I would love to see a quote from a writer about that one.
This episode got me thinking: what if the invasion were a season long arc where National City is under Daxamite occupation for the entire season? It might be cool to see our heroes struggle as resistance fighters for an entire season with a big victory at the end.
IMO The story would be much stronger by being several episodes longer IMO and not 2 (3 if you count the week before)
So they treat Conservatives the same way Conservatives treat Liberals. Seems pretty fair to me. I watched Fox News (supposedly news) berate Obama for eight years. Telling people about death panels and how Obama was gonna take their guns and how Obama was setting up the military to take over Texas and...
With entertainment, you realize (you should) that these are reflective of the views of the creators and act accordingly. No one is forcing you to take Supergirl's side in a political dispute.
Well, yeah, after the invasion
Nothing more? She is with a special task force and has dealt with aliens before, and even if she wasn't she's a trained police officer and the aliens they're dealing with are allergic to lead.
That would be a natural outcome to you? Seriously?
If your best friend said tomorrow "I'm a superhero, sorry I didn't tell you that sooner" that would be a reason to hate them? Why?
I love Lynda Carter, but she was never that good of an actress to begin with so I can't say I see any decline
Had the same thought.
Either that or the writers are incredibly lazy.
I think only Rhea's story will be resolved this season, Cadmus can easily roll over to the next one, there's just too much to wrap up there. And Zod is likely just gonna be a short cameo, like a vision messing with Superman or something.
When you're the president, you aren't allowed, you order
When you're Cat you don't care for "allowed" neither.
Why not?
Maybe you should ask yourself why those views sound like something that villains would spew...
Doesn't a bunch of heroes from Earth One owe her an invasion repulsion?
More so, Kara could have used her Earth hopping widget to get through the Ship's force field..
More so, Kara could have used her Earth hopping widget to get through the Ship's force field..
Why do you feel it's "not allowed" to watch a show that challenges your views?
Who's forbidding you to watch it?
If you're challenged by Supergirl, you may have to wear a stronger safety helmet out in public.
The only thing annoying about politics in a superhero show is the same thing that's annoying about physics on a superhero show – the writers start with the right idea, and then go onto ignoring all the details. (Although I think Supergirl seems to handle politics much better than physics...)
I think that's a third week in a row where a TV show has taken the liberty to use the phrase ‘Making X great again’ in the exact same manner. And while the point that is being made is a good and fair one, it is so utterly detached from scale of what's happening in the show itself that it takes you out of it. Can't tell if that last bit is a good or a bad thing, though – I enjoyed it the first time. It's important to be reminded of any parallels with the real world – even if what's going on is not a full-blown alien inasion, we certainly have a mess in the world much worse than a fictional invasion.
However, there's something else that bothers me about the politics of the show. So Cadmus played with team good guys this episode. Now, I don't exactly mind that, I even like a story that puts together both sides in a conflict, even when one of them is totally reprehensible. It leaves so much of the complex human nature to be explored. It feels good. Usually. Not here, though. It was ridiculous to suggest that these xenophobic terrorists were indispensable in saving the day, and that in their hateful motivation they invented – and not by accident – the human R2-D2 necessary to pull it off, almost nearly implying that their worldview was necessary for that technology to exist.
So you team up with Cadmus, imply they ‘had some good ideas’, all while making jabs at Trump who, for all his faults, has not yet used chemicals weapons on anybody and has not invaded planets (all those military ships he sends to Risa are just a cover, folks, he just likes to go there). Then jabs at Trump gets the messenger blown out of the sky, which doesn't really make it convincing. If you're easily influenced by catchphrases, you'd be as easily influenced by Rhea's big guns and unyielding resolve. I mean, she kicks ass.
OTOH, Cat brought a bright and amusing presence to the show, her character makes funny dark jokes, underplays big reveals with a joke, randomly reveals secret identities (and conceals she knows others). I think she is secretly holding her tongue in her cheek a lot of the time. In line with that, I'm willing to take the AF1 scene as a half-joke on Cat – ‘We shouldn't stand here and measure our dicks!’ ‘You only say that cause you'll lose! [bang bang bang]’
I think that's a third week in a row where a TV show has taken the liberty to use the phrase ‘Making X great again’ in the exact same manner. And while the point that is being made is a good and fair one, it is so utterly detached from scale of what's happening in the show itself that it takes you out of it. Can't tell if that last bit is a good or a bad thing, though – I enjoyed it the first time. It's important to be reminded of any parallels with the real world – even if what's going on is not a full-blown alien inasion, we certainly have a mess in the world much worse than a fictional invasion.
However, there's something else that bothers me about the politics of the show. So Cadmus played with team good guys this episode. Now, I don't exactly mind that, I even like a story that puts together both sides in a conflict, even when one of them is totally reprehensible. It leaves so much of the complex human nature to be explored. It feels good. Usually. Not here, though. It was ridiculous to suggest that these xenophobic terrorists were indispensable in saving the day, and that in their hateful motivation they invented – and not by accident – the human R2-D2 necessary to pull it off, almost nearly implying that their worldview was necessary for that technology to exist.
So you team up with Cadmus, imply they ‘had some good ideas’, all while making jabs at Trump who, for all his faults, has not yet used chemicals weapons on anybody and has not invaded planets (all those military ships he sends to Risa are just a cover, folks, he just likes to go there). Then jabs at Trump gets the messenger blown out of the sky, which doesn't really make it convincing. If you're easily influenced by catchphrases, you'd be as easily influenced by Rhea's big guns and unyielding resolve. I mean, she kicks ass.
OTOH, Cat brought a bright and amusing presence to the show, her character makes funny dark jokes, underplays big reveals with a joke, randomly reveals secret identities (and conceals she knows others). I think she is secretly holding her tongue in her cheek a lot of the time. In line with that, I'm willing to take the AF1 scene as a half-joke on Cat – ‘We shouldn't stand here and measure our dicks!’ ‘You only say that cause you'll lose! [bang bang bang]’
Not fake history--revisionist history. It's just factually false.
It does not challenge my views. It misrepresents them. Badly. And when all you get on TV is a lot of that, all over the spectrum, I don't feel my views are challenged at all--it's more like attacked. If you really want to see what would happen if a show challenged views, they should have some conservative leaning characters and writers and represent them positively. As for who is forbidding me to watch, the answer is no one, but I was responding to multiple suggestions to simply solve the problem by not watching the show. Plus, shilling for a specific political party doesn't challenge any views.
I would rather see the writers make the choice to not disrespect half the country than tell half the country that their viewing is not welcome. Of course, no writer on this show has said that, but we are seeing it here.
I hope this isn't getting too tiresome. I feel this is a legit complaint about this episode and spoke my mind on it.
@Kirk Prime I'm sorry, but espousing a particular political viewpoint is not "disrespecting half the country", and your statement to the contrary has just made the following meme extremely appropriate:
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