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Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.

Yes, it is.
Construction Officer's Log Book Star Date 517152

Crewman Smith picked up some plastic siding today and attached it to another piece of siding with liquid nails. This afternoon I saw him in the lunchroom picking the glue off his fingers and making little balls with it. He flicked one clear across the room getting Neelix in the eye. Fight ensued.

Yep nothing like quality story telling based on repairs ..
 
How would you know that, if you've only watched the first season?
I've noticed that too. What is with the almost photographic memory and thorough researching those who whine about Voyager have?

I love the show and know less, lol.
 
Sorry Eddie you did reply to the question thing earlier in the thread and I started to read it but it's the same old stuff. Voyager had too many torpedos, was too shiny and I hate everything about. Is that supposed to be debate fodder? How can you debate with haters?
 
Sorry Eddie you did reply to the question thing earlier in the thread and I started to read it but it's the same old stuff. Voyager had too many torpedos, was too shiny and I hate everything about. Is that supposed to be debate fodder? How can you debate with haters?
You could start by taking your ADHD medication and actually reading anything that I wrote.:lol:
 
Oh I 'm sorry I was rude. I will read it then but if you are on one of those complaining about everything benders I will shut down..
 
I have a question:

Does anyone think any of the Trek series are 100% perfect, just the way they are? That there's not one thing which could be improved, or changed, or just otherwise tweaked?

I'm not talking about 'show ruining' flaws either. I mean literally anything.
 
I have a question:

Does anyone think any of the Trek series are 100% perfect, just the way they are? That there's not one thing which they'd prefer to be improved, or changed, or just otherwise tweaked?
Sort of covered already: Voyager got alot of things right, and realized a respectable portion of its potential. MY only complaint is that alot of the DIALOG -- especially during action sequences -- is distractingly silly. It's not a complete deal breaker, but as I said earlier, it's kind of a spoil-factor for the show in the same way Jar Jar Binks is kind of a spoil-factor for Star Wars (it's really, REALLY hard to tune out).

Interestingly, this particular problem is one that Star Trek writers have been trying to avoid for a pretty long time:
say_NO_to_technobabble.png
 
Construction Officer's Log Book Star Date 517152

Crewman Smith picked up some plastic siding today and attached it to another piece of siding with liquid nails. This afternoon I saw him in the lunchroom picking the glue off his fingers and making little balls with it. He flicked one clear across the room getting Neelix in the eye. Fight ensued.

Yep nothing like quality story telling based on repairs ..

You're being very obtuse by suggesting that anybody is asking for 'storytelling based on repairs.' Literally nobody is asking for that. Nobody.
 
Not necessarily.
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ALSO not necessarily.




Almost there.

I'll give you a hint: one of them is a story that develops because of a conflict between PEOPLE, and is eventually resolved by the actions of people.

The other is a story that develops because of incomprehensible technobabble, and is eventually resolved by incomprehensible technobabble.

In the first story, the problem is caused by the competing motivations of protagonists, antagonists, and and possibly a moral dilemma that one or both of them has to deal with. In the second story, both the problem AND the solution are ex machina plot devices, and the characters are almost irrelevant.

And this has been my experience with Voyager since Caretaker. The series has some really great episodes, and it also has some really shit episodes, and it also has some really shit moments in otherwise great episodes. The shit moments/episodes all have one important thing in common: they happen when characters (and/or their dialog) are trying to be clever, at the expense of being relatable.

Much like the examples I gave in the post you didn't bother to read. Toskit telling Kim and Torres that their food is delivered "every one point four intervals" tells us that Toskit is very clever and really good at counting intervals. But it doesn't actually tell us how often the Caretaker feeds them, so the information is meaningless.

Imagine, on the other hand, if Toskit says "The food dispensers give us a random meal just after sunrise and just before sunset. Enough for our daily needs." This actually tells us three important things:
1) The Ocampa only take their meals at per-determined times of the day, and have for many years
2) The Ocampa have no say in what they get to eat or how much
3) On some level, even Toskit would like to get a little bit more, but elects to be satisfied with "enough for our daily needs."

Because the whole premise of "Caretaker" is that the Ocampa have become so dependent on the Caretaker that they can barely think for themselves and have become like a race of children, and going forward there's a question about how they are going to survive after their energy and food run out. These are questions you can ponder after the episode airs, and maybe revisit in a novel or a later episode. On the other hand, the question of "Exactly how long is one point four intervals?" isn't all that interesting; it's a complete waste of words, and ultimate, a wasted scene.

The spinoff series all had a tendency to waste words in this way, but only Voyager took it to such extremes that it became a distraction, or in some cases, the foundations of entire episodes.

Regards the clip in reference to a docking disaster.. I'm reminded of that episode where Tom and B'Ellana are floating in space sharing air and falling in love or at least admitting it. It wasn't a docking thing but it was that type of old school floating in space waiting to be rescued scenario. Those types of stories you wouldn't want to do too often, in my opinion. In fact a lot of the suggestions I've read as what Voyager could have done have been vague but when pressed have been one off ideas that have been done before.

The technobabble is not a hangup of mine. In fact I praise them for it. Why shouldn't they use references to advanced technology it's science fiction. However what really confuses me is your interpretation that comes next. I don't get it. Voyager is too shiny and operates too well. Yet when Voyager needs her repairs done or resources sourced and a story ensues.. that's not good enough either? So are you saying you wished that none of the stories were based around Intrepid Class ship issues and that every character driven story only mattered if they were not on some planet because of the technical stuff?

I am confused! Voyager is not supposed to babble about its technology or use it as a foundation for plots but at the same time we must see the ship being maintained every week. Yet the concept of food dispenser babble is okay? That episode with Torres fell short because it lacked the right explanation regards this food dispenser.

Do you think maybe you underestimate the joining of the dots capacity the audience has? I mean I didn't need to know about the timing of the Ocampa feeds to work out they were treated like children by the Caretaker..
 
Not all that tiresome crap you guys would've changed it into. Thank God you would've ruined the show for people who actually liked it.

That didnt actually answer my question, what changes if any would you have made? A change doesn't have to be an addition it can be a subtraction getting rid of something you didn't like.
 
I have a question:

Does anyone think any of the Trek series are 100% perfect, just the way they are? That there's not one thing which could be improved, or changed, or just otherwise tweaked?

I'm not talking about 'show ruining' flaws either. I mean literally anything.
I don't look for perfection.. I come back to one of my favorite poems.. I think I may have quoted once before.. from Maud and about Maud by Tennyson..

Perfectly beautiful: let it be granted her: where is the fault?
All that I saw (for her eyes were downcast, not to be seen)
Faultily faultless, icily regular, splendidly null,
Dead perfection, no more; nothing more,

Star Trek is entertainment but when the faults are all you see and want to look for them I reckon change the station.
 
That didnt actually answer my question, what changes if any would you have made? A change doesn't have to be an addition it can be a subtraction getting rid of something you didn't like.
I am not adding my voice to taking anything more away from what Voayger was and is! Shit there would be nothing left.
 
I think the point is that the Haakonian-Talaxian war occured sometime around 2340s-2350s. The episode where they find the Talaxian , colony is set in 2378 so we are lloking in the region of 25-35 years. Bear in mindVoyager had done some big jumps totravel from Talax in "Jetrel" to that Talaxian colony of at least 40 000ly. Which could indicate even the advanced engines of VOY might struggle to traverse that distance in 35 years. The Talaxian ship would also have to go through Borg space. Now it is possible that they found a wormhole to go through to shorten the distance but the numbers stretch believablity.
I imagine they went around it, perhaps they did find a lucky wormhole.
 
TNG had considerably more. Especially from Data and Geordi.
If you mean TNG had considerably more technobabble than VOY, then is this yet another example of VOY getting blasted for things TNG gets away with.

It's a pretentiousness that makes Voyager somewhat difficult (not impossible, just difficult) to really enjoy.
I enjoy VOY for the characters. Yes I wish there was less technobabble. But it doesn't bother me to the point I can't enjoy.

This is because good stories are character-driven, not device-driven. When, on the other hand, all a character has to do is recite some techno gibberish and then quietly push a button that makes the gibberish happen, the characters are irrelevant.
I don't think the characters are irrelevant. I feel the characters in Voyager and their interactions with each other are quite interesting.

Does anyone think any of the Trek series are 100% perfect, just the way they are?
No, nothing is 100 percent perfect, nor is it 100 percent awful either.
 
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I have a question:

Does anyone think any of the Trek series are 100% perfect, just the way they are? That there's not one thing which could be improved, or changed, or just otherwise tweaked?

I'm not talking about 'show ruining' flaws either. I mean literally anything.
I can say with honesty that changing something in any of the shows is a desire I don't have. Like, at all. I would change it so Enterprise has 3 more seasons. Does that count?

Maybe that means my brain is wired wrong, I dunno. I've never been a big fan of the film's(except TMP) but I wouldn't change those either. I'll probably get flak for this, but I really, really don't like the new movies. I cannot watch them. I haven't even seen Beyond yet, but I don't think I've ever once gone into the Kelvin forum here.

EDIT: I'm not saying I find everything to be perfect. There are moments in all the shows where I roll my eyes, or cringe at the hamfisted expodumps, but it doesn't enter my mind that it should be changed
 
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I don't know that Braga specifically deserves or doesn't deserve credit for it (would have to research that a little) but it was one of the more interesting things about Enterprise. With "Minefield" acting as part of the premise for "Dead Stop," it immediately brought back memories of the way Voyager never seemed to retain damage from one episode to the next even when aliens blasted the crap out of it.

it also occurs to me that this sort of thing is ALOT easier to sell these days; you miss an episode of, say, "The Expanse" and go "Shit, lots of stuff happened last episode and I missed it and now I'm lost... Amazon prime to the rescue!"
Well he was the show runner from season 1-3, co-creater, and lead writer. He created the premise, and there's episode to episode continuity even in the first season. As for Voyager being damaged then shiny, I'll say for the 47th time. It's a myth. And there's one example I can think of to the contrary. In Scorpion, Chakotay says it will take two weeks to get all the Borgy stuff off the ship. In the following episode(The Gift) The Borg stuff is still being removed and shown on the hull.
 
Construction Officer's Log Book Star Date 517152

Crewman Smith picked up some plastic siding today and attached it to another piece of siding with liquid nails. This afternoon I saw him in the lunchroom picking the glue off his fingers and making little balls with it. He flicked one clear across the room getting Neelix in the eye. Fight ensued.

Yep nothing like quality story telling based on repairs ..
That's not what I'm asking but I'll let you make all the jokes you would like.

We clearly have different interests regarding science fiction and what I think Voyager could have been. With due respect, just because it isn't for you, doesn't make it bad.

Horror films are not for me, and I freely admit that, but I don't think they are bad. They are just uninteresting and not entertaining. Voyager is entertaining, but it could have been more.

That's my piece on the matter. I think I'll leave it at that since I think @Anwar raised a nice story beat that could work and I don't think i can add to it at this point in time.
 
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