Should Endgame Have Had A 3rd Part?

[Sophie74656]

I've been thinking about this, and really, with the way Endgame was written, it didn't close a number of threads that were left open, like:

-What happened to the Borg from Unimatrix Zero? At the end of the two-parter it seemed like the Collective was splintered and now there was a separate faction that was fighting the Queen to disassemble the hive. Surely a story could've come from here without having to resort to a time travel Borg episode.

-Instead of hitting the "reset" button, why not advance the story by 20 years?

-Forget the Borg and time travel, how about bringing back the Vaadwuur and maybe the Equinox crewmembers?

Seriously, the producers had a lot more options open to them that could've satisfied fans.

I agree about the Unimatriz Zero borg. And I don't think that endgame was a reset. Voyager only had one true reset.

The problem with what you wrote about using something besides the borg is that it may be something you want to see but not everyone would want that. The fans will never be satisfied because not everyone agrees on what they want to see. You can satisfy some but never all.

 

[somebuddyX]

I think it should have just had a small coda, maybe jump ahead a year into the future and see where everyone is. A nice sunny day in San Francisco and everyone's sitting around at an outdoor cafe and they toast to the Delta Quadrant or something.

 

[stardream]

I think a scene of the crew assembled in the cargo bay, Janeway giving a speech about their journey, remembering the fallen etc. The camera pans across the crew and then behind her where we see family members waiting. Then she dismisses them and we have a reunion. That's it. That would be all I needed.

 

[Paul Weaver]

I think a scene of the crew assembled in the cargo bay, Janeway giving a speech about their journey, remembering the fallen etc. The camera pans across the crew and then behind her where we see family members waiting. Then she dismisses them and we have a reunion. That's it. That would be all I needed.

And have everyone who's ever had a speaking role (or as many as possible) - the Wildmans, the equinox crew, Nicoletti, the Delaney sisters, Vorik, the ones from Good Shepherd and Learning Curve, etc.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

You know what, producers screwed up on so many things that I say to myself that Endgame could have been worse than what we had so, I content myself with what I have:
- Voyager returned in AQ,... even if I would have prefered to see the vessel landing on Earth and the crew be joined by their friends & relatives,
- Janeway stood firm to keep her distances with Chakotay, ... even if I would have prefered to see her ending with Jaffen,
- Seven will be surrounded by familiar faces (Janeway, the Doctor, Neelix and even Chakotay, whatever as friend or mate,

But I would welcome with the open arms any idea of reunion on Netflix or elsewhere, just to know the (official and not non-canon sequels) fate of each.

 

[marlboro]

I think that when they finally landed on earth they should have been greeted by Dr. Zaius and the Ape Council.

 

[Refuge]

Do people consider the early movies 'canon'? Like Janeway is in 'Nemesis' and as an Admiral. I just wonder how that fits into the scheme of things.

It tickles that she outranks Picard..

 

[tomswift2002]

And I don't think that endgame was a reset. Voyager only had one true reset.

With Endgame we had the episode open with Voyager arriving home, some two decades later, and announcer then saying that that was ten years in the past. And then we get the story about Janeway being remorseful for all the crew members that she lost during the voyage, especially Seven of Nine, that was apparently brought up by Chakotay's death upon Voyager's return to Earth. And then Janeway decides to go back in time in order to get Voyager home even sooner, and you don't call that a "reset". That's something that the series was doing since the 3rd episode Time And Again, but now combined with a Borg element (also, why did Seven not tell Janeway about these transwarp hubs in Dark Frontier? Forget the transwarp coils, just hop into a transwarp corridor and get to Earth --- not to mention that this made the Borg Queen look really stupid and without teeth --- you have a transwarp corridor that goes right to, essentially, Earth's 'back door', but every time that we see the Borg they need to come from outside the Earth system, there by giving Starfleet a chance to mount a defense, but you don't send a couple of ships right to Earth orbit to begin the bombardment and battle right at Earth!).

Really, Endgame was Turnabout Intruder for Voyager, in that it was essentially a generic Voyager episode, just with the last few minutes containing a glimpse of what fans had been longing to see for 7 years.

The problem with what you wrote about using something besides the borg is that it may be something you want to see but not everyone would want that. The fans will never be satisfied because not everyone agrees on what they want to see. You can satisfy some but never all.

It's funny, in the last few days I just found my copy of Star Trek The Magazine from November/December 2012, and one of the articles in that magazine was about the finales of all the different series, and I forget who reviewed Voyager's finale, but one thing that they mentioned was that they found that the Borg Queen just didn't have any "teeth" in Endgame when she told the Borg not to go after Voyager in the nebula. Otherwise, I think the reviewer might've also compared it to Turnabout Intruder as well.

 

[Refuge]

To be honest I have no idea about 'Turnabout Intruder' but I was pleased in Endgame that Admiral Janeway got meet her previous self and give those she had lost another chance. That was a good thing.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

To be honest I have no idea about 'Turnabout Intruder' but I was pleased in Endgame that Admiral Janeway got meet her previous self and give those she had lost another chance. That was a good thing.

I agree, the idea was brillant and then, it showed how loyal Janeway was towards her crew, no matter that she acted as Captain or later, as Admiral.
We already knew that she was able to put herself in danger and even, to give her life for crew but until then, she has never thrown her own princples (well, ok, she violated Starfleet directives on many occasions but as long as it granted with her own rules and morale, it was a reasonnable violation for her) out of the window. In coming back in the past, she crossed the ultimate border in accepting to give her life (badly lived afterwards, because consumed with by guilt) as well a Starfleet officer as a person for her crew and not only for Seven, Chakotay and Tuvok, as many would want to believe (often by romanticism).
And then, by deciding to modify the past events, she allowed her younger self to get a happier life than what she had, like a second chance.

My only critics about Endgame was an end which was maybe too open and of course, Chakotay/Seven, which was ridiculous. On the other hand, I shall change nothing about the meeting between the 2 Janeways.

 

[Sophie74656]

I agree, the idea was brillant and then, it showed how loyal Janeway was towards her crew, no matter that she acted as Captain or later, as Admiral.
We already knew that she was able to put herself in danger and even, to give her life for crew but until then, she has never thrown her own princples (well, ok, she violated Starfleet directives on many occasions but as long as it granted with her own rules and morale, it was a reasonnable violation for her) out of the window. In coming back in the past, she crossed the ultimate border in accepting to give her life (badly lived afterwards, because consumed with by guilt) as well a Starfleet officer as a person for her crew and not only for Seven, Chakotay and Tuvok, as many would want to believe (often by romanticism).
And then, by deciding to modify the past events, she allowed her younger self to get a happier life than what she had, like a second chance.

My only critics about Endgame was an end which was maybe too open and of course, Chakotay/Seven, which was ridiculous. On the other hand, I shall change nothing about the meeting between the 2 Janeways.

When did Janeway violate Starfleet directives?

 

[MadeIndescribable]

When did Janeway violate Starfleet directives?

Admiral Janeway going back in Endgame would have violated the Temporal Prime Directive, but that's the only one that springs to mind. I can remember her being pretty specific about not sharing technology (although did give the Hirogen holodecks, and look how that turned out), and in episodes like The Void would always stand up for what Starfleet was all about.

 

[Sophie74656]

Admiral Janeway going back in Endgame would have violated the Temporal Prime Directive, but that's the only one that springs to mind. I can remember her being pretty specific about not sharing technology (although did give the Hirogen holodecks, and look how that turned out), and in episodes like The Void would always stand up for what Starfleet was all about.

Yes the Admiral going back in time was clearly a violation waking the aliens in Dragon's Teeth was a violation of the prime directive I believe, but it wasn't Janeway who did it

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Yes the Admiral going back in time was clearly a violation waking the aliens in Dragon's Teeth was a violation of the prime directive I believe, but it wasn't Janeway who did it

The Prime Directive only applies to pre-warp civilisations, although i'm sure it's not the only directive to deal with interfering with other cultures.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

When did Janeway violate Starfleet directives?

Well, I used an umbrella term to cover the Prime Directive; the protocols, like giving some (temporary) ranks/important positions aboard and codes, to civilians (because yes, even if some people like Chakotay, B'Elena and some others, were committed to Starfleet one time, right the moment where they tendered their resignation, they were being re-etablished as civilians by the military organisation ; treason and collaboration with the enemy, because even if Chakotay and his former crew are presented like good guys in Voyager, they are not less of civilians who turned as Maquis rebels, who are considered by the Federation & Starfleet like criminals (who killed people - even if these people were Cardassians - and stole equipment owned by Starfleet and/or the Federation). And by becoming allied to them (even if her reasons were understandable, Janeway became collusive and could be court - martialed for high treason. Of course, she will not because it's a show and that she is a main the heroine but In the reality, she would be!

But getting back to Maquis rebels, that the treaty signed between the Federation & the Cardassian Empire is still on - or not -, when Voyager will return to Earth, I don't see Chakotay and his friends being welcome with open armed and by association, escaping a penalty (at best, their active collaboration aboard Voyager will allow them a less heavy punishment but they will be punished all the same!)

By the way, it was funny to see Janeway taking offence of the fact that Starfleet command still considered Chakotay and Cie as rebels/criminals after 4 years of cohabitation (Hunter). She just forgot that just because she became friends with their leader and some members of his former crew, it meant that Starfleet had to submit itself to her judgment! I mean, the Maquis rebels can turn out loyal, active, etc..., it didn't erase all that criminal acts committed before, right?!
-> if there is one thing that Janeway isn't, it is being naive so, why passing her for what she isn't here?! ).

 

[at Quark's]

It tickles that she outranks Picard..

No, why would it ? Picard turned down a promotion to admiral at least once. And that was even before he met Kirk, who from own experience also strongly advised him to never accept promotion. He dreads the admiral's banquet because their company is so headachingly dull.

Clearly, he doesn't want such a job.

 

[Sophie74656]

Well, I used an umbrella term to cover the Prime Directive; the protocols, like giving some (temporary) ranks/important positions aboard and codes, to civilians (because yes, even if some people like Chakotay, B'Elena and some others, were committed to Starfleet one time, right the moment where they tendered their resignation, they were being re-etablished as civilians by the military organisation ; treason and collaboration with the enemy, because even if Chakotay and his former crew are presented like good guys in Voyager, they are not less of civilians who turned as Maquis rebels, who are considered by the Federation & Starfleet like criminals (who killed people - even if these people were Cardassians - and stole equipment owned by Starfleet and/or the Federation). And by becoming allied to them (even if her reasons were understandable, Janeway became collusive and could be court - martialed for high treason. Of course, she will not because it's a show and that she is a main the heroine but In the reality, she would be!

But getting back to Maquis rebels, that the treaty signed between the Federation & the Cardassian Empire is still on - or not -, when Voyager will return to Earth, I don't see Chakotay and his friends being welcome with open armed and by association, escaping a penalty (at best, their active collaboration aboard Voyager will allow them a less heavy punishment but they will be punished all the same!)

By the way, it was funny to see Janeway taking offence of the fact that Starfleet command still considered Chakotay and Cie as rebels/criminals after 4 years of cohabitation (Hunter). She just forgot that just because she became friends with their leader and some members of his former crew, it meant that Starfleet had to submit itself to her judgment! I mean, the Maquis rebels can turn out loyal, active, etc..., it didn't erase all that criminal acts committed before, right?!
-> if there is one thing that Janeway isn't, it is being naive so, why passing her for what she isn't here?! ).

She wasn't breaking any protocol there. It was completely in her right to grant provisional ranks to Chakotay and the others

 

[Refuge]

No, why would it ? Picard turned down a promotion to admiral at least once. And that was even before he met Kirk, who from own experience also strongly advised him to never accept promotion. He dreads the admiral's banquet because their company is so headachingly dull.

Clearly, he doesn't want such a job.

Janeway looked liked she owned Picard in the scene in 'Nemesis' .. like he was her underling..

 

[at Quark's]

mmm... never noticed that. But I'll rewatch the scene shortly.

And even if she did, so what ? I don't get disturbed by 'superiors' who work for the same company who give indications they think in such terms. I don't waste my time on that (or them), and I guess, so does Picard.

 

[Refuge]

mmm... never noticed that. But I'll rewatch the scene shortly.

And even if she did, so what ? I don't get disturbed by 'superiors' who work for the same company who give indications they think in such terms. I don't waste my time on that (or them), and I guess, so does Picard.

Laughing, so you ARE going to watch.. oh oh. Maybe I overrated the ownership thing for dramatic purposes She was lovely and helpful but it is interesting to know how two Captains advanced in their careers.