Captain Archer: did he need to be the show's punching bag?
- Thread starter Devilpogostick
- Start date
I alway saw him as pretty much a light weight. An obvious Pollyanna, he usually was out of his depth and would often just stumble onto a solution.
Basically yes.
Perhaps "dominate" isn't the term I'd personally use, but we would place ourselves on at least a equal footing, and the captain selected for the NX-01 would understand this was a priority of his assignment. It would have to do with how other species saw us through our chosen representative.
As pointed out, Kirk didn't alway win in a physical fight, but he would find a way to assume control of the situation in other ways and in the end win. If not fists, then through his voice, or he would manipulate opponents into a position that was advantageous to Kirk's objectives, or he would just turn a opponent into a friend.
Archer for the greater part, lack this ability.
He definitely was the wrong choice as the NX-01's commanding officer.
Kirk had nearly a whole century of federation history and training to fall back on.
Could you give some examples? I can think of three occasions where Archer was both captured, and interrogated.
The Andorian Incident
-Archer is placed under guard by Shran and his thugs. Archer intentionally provokes the guards into beating him so as to distract them while attempting to escape. During this ordeal, Archer wins Shran's respect and becomes a lifelong friend and important ally.
The Communicator
-Archer is captured by a pre-warp, cold war era civilization, while attempting to retrieve technology lost on the planet. Yes, it was ill-advised to visit this planet in the first place, but these kinds of incidents are to be expected in pre-federation exploration missions. There are no rules, and Archer is shown to learn a valuable lesson here.
The last one is one of the late season 3 episodes where the reptilian guys take Archer and interrogate him. Archer again provokes them, and laughs as they strike him. He's fearless. His whole mission to the Xindi leaders worked. Except for the renegade reptilians, the Xindi allied themselves with Archer. Had Archer simply found the weapon and destroyed it somehow, the would have just built another one, maybe even invaded Earth. Archer saved humanity through his diplomacy.
By the last season, Archer saves the day in literally every story.
After the episode Home he took up T'Pau's offer of susmanah training (under the watchful eye of Tucker)
Okay, I admit that Archer should've allowed some of the other guys get a fair share of "roughing" but, being the Captain has its drawbacks - he's usually the one everyone wants to get because without him, they feel they can "take over" Enterprise. Of course, they still would have to deal with Cmdr. Tucker, Lt. Reed & T'Pol right? The more I watch this show I become amazed at the fact that it DID NOT get to stay on. I really feel that being the first ship and first crew to "explore" is probably what exactly would happen if we actually launched into space.
Interesting that at first Scott Bakula was told that the Captain doesn't bleed. His response was, supposedly, "This one does."
Has anyone else noticed how often Archer ends up with three or four parallel scratches on his cheek?
Has anyone else noticed how often Archer ends up with three or four parallel scratches on his cheek?
M
marlboro
Guest
occasional punching bag or not, Archers fight scenes were by far the most entertaining of all the Trek captains.
Just kinda highlights how ineffective a Captain he was. He's meant to be building bridges with other races, not getting his ass handed to him.
I kinda felt sorry for Bakula. The character was all over the place.
Agreed, but I don't think Bakula's awful performances helped. I could barely tolerate watching him. The only other Trek actor I've felt this way about is Garrett Wang. Not great company.
M
marlboro
Guest
"Pinkskin?" -Travis Mayweather
I actually think Enterprise (and to a lesser extent, The Original Series) had it right. Space is vast and dangerous; and humans, at least physically, are outclassed by most other species.
Hand-to-hand combat is fun to watch and makes for great action sequences, but how likely is it that Sisko -- or any other human -- could fend off multiple armored, blade weilding, physically stronger, combat-ready Klingons with little more than fists and elbows? Or Jem'Hadar?
I actually prefer TNG's approach. We saw some physical action -- like Riker in A Matter of Honor -- in which he shows a willingness and ability to fight, but isn't nearly stupid enough to directly challenge the physically superior Klag. Instead he uses his head to surprise Klag and ends that fight quickly by forcing him into the circuitry. This seems to be a theme, as in The Best of Both Worlds, the crew doesn't discover or build some clever new rock to throw at the Borg, but rather ends up using their brains (or, rather, Data's and Picard's brains, lol) to hack the invading ship.
But Archer -- and humanity at large -- didn't have the perspective or experience that our 24th Century heroes had, and so got himself into a world of trouble blazing the trail. And sometimes it was just unavoidable.
Hand-to-hand combat is fun to watch and makes for great action sequences, but how likely is it that Sisko -- or any other human -- could fend off multiple armored, blade weilding, physically stronger, combat-ready Klingons with little more than fists and elbows? Or Jem'Hadar?
I actually prefer TNG's approach. We saw some physical action -- like Riker in A Matter of Honor -- in which he shows a willingness and ability to fight, but isn't nearly stupid enough to directly challenge the physically superior Klag. Instead he uses his head to surprise Klag and ends that fight quickly by forcing him into the circuitry. This seems to be a theme, as in The Best of Both Worlds, the crew doesn't discover or build some clever new rock to throw at the Borg, but rather ends up using their brains (or, rather, Data's and Picard's brains, lol) to hack the invading ship.
But Archer -- and humanity at large -- didn't have the perspective or experience that our 24th Century heroes had, and so got himself into a world of trouble blazing the trail. And sometimes it was just unavoidable.
Other races might not be interested in your bridges or your gazelles.
They aren't mutually exclusive.
Excuse you but I don't remember seeing a single double-fisted punch OR an off-the-wall ass-to-face body slam in ENT. #KIRK4LYFE
