Harry Kim's rape

[Triskelion]

What if consent is given by someone who doesn't know that they don't want to give consent?

What if the alien reproduces through osmotic hand holding? But wore a glove?

What if it is a Borg and the Collective gives consent?

What if an omnipotent alien created a duplicate of himself and did that?

What if you could retcon the timeline after - did it still happen?

What if it was a glove-wearing osmotically-handholding Borgified Talosian-Xyrillian hybrid doppleganger who gave consent in another timeline but didn't realize they would have preferred not to - is what I'm asking.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Klingon lube is sand.

Extra Sensitive Klingon Lube, for her pleasure, is shale.

 

[Trekkin]

What if consent is given by someone who doesn't know that they don't want to give consent?

Actually a real thing. We call that 'incapable.'

What if the alien reproduces through osmotic hand holding? But wore a glove?

Poor Trip and Troi.

What if it is a Borg and the Collective gives consent?

Also incapable.

What if an omnipotent alien created a duplicate of himself and did that?

Can't consent for someone else. Identical twin or not.

What if you could retcon the timeline after - did it still happen?

Chronologically speaking, yeah. Good luck doing anything about it though.

What if it was a glove-wearing osmotically-handholding Borgified Talosian-Xyrillian hybrid doppleganger who gave consent in another timeline but didn't realize they would have preferred not to - is what I'm asking.

I'm gonna need a copy of the Borgified Talosian-Dyrillian Criminal Code.

Stand by for an invoice.

 

[Triskelion]

Well here's more for your invoice, but good luck collecting as I am not within your planetary jurisdiction.

But "incapable" doesn't apply to someone who is, in fact, capable, but just makes decisions they would consider wrong if they thought it through. Also, if you didn't hump a tree in the forest, did it not happen?

 

[Guy Gardener]

For a Talaxian to legally & safely have consensual sex with a Klingon, "someone" would have to get the Doctor to run a panel of tests on what happens when Tallaxian fluids and Klingon fluids mingle, and then Janeway would have to sign the permission slip.

That means, that if such tests were done years earlier, that "someone" thought that eventually at some point that Neelix and B'Elanna would hook up.

 

[Trekkin]

Well here's more for your invoice, but good luck collecting as I am not within your planetary jurisdiction.

But "incapable" doesn't apply to someone who is, in fact, capable, but just makes decisions they would consider wrong if they thought it through. Also, if you didn't hump a tree in the forest, did it not happen?

I don't collect, I receive. Collecting is for the big scary men with sledgehammers.

As for your question, you're gonna need to provide more details.

That'll be another $200.

... and then Janeway would have to sign the permission slip.

She makes them do that anyway.

 

[Triskelion]

I don't collect, I receive. Collecting is for the big scary men with sledgehammers.

As for your question, you're gonna need to provide more details.

That'll be another $200.




She makes them do that anyway.

Ah, which happens to be my social media marketing engagement consulting fee. I'll have my goons get in touch with your goons, and you and I can do a deductable lunch sometime.

What about Q sexually harrassing Katie? Popping into her tub?



Anyway, this reminds me of another brilliant sophist, Benny Hill.
"Madame, is it really true that no sometimes means yes?"
"No."

 

[Lynx]

Poor Harry!

Constantly the series whipping boy.

Beaten up (The Chute), killed off (Emanations, Deadlock), severly injured and close to death (several books), neglected for promotion (the whole series), making a fool of himself (Resolutions, Alter Ego), almost got his DNA sucked out by female alien vampires (Favorite Son) and raped.

OK, he's somewhat better in the books but there he has the bad habit of being severly injured and close to death in many of them.

I wish they would have made him more like McGee in NCIS who started as the series whipping boy but became a good and efficient agent. Kim remained the whipping boy during the whole series.

 

[at Quark's]

It's his own fault, really.

If only he wouldn't have dressed himself so provocatively in those slutty starfleet uniforms, nothing would have happened.

 

[Lynx]

It's his own fault, really.

If only he wouldn't have dressed himself so provocatively in those slutty starfleet uniforms, nothing would have happened.

Well, there is a scene in "Twisted" which actually gave me nasty thoughts.
It's when Janeway and Kim are crawling through the Jeffries tubes to trying to get to the bridge:
KIM: Could it be evidence of the ship's reconfiguration?
JANEWAY: Possibly. We'll have to compare this data with readings the others get. Harry?
KIM: Yes, ma'am.
JANEWAY: I just want you to know you've been one of the bright spots of this whole mission. You've exceeded any expectations I might have had of you.
KIM: Thank you, Captain. I appreciate that. Wait a minute. Down there. I think that's the conduit leading to the Bridge.

When I recently watched that scene, I got that nasty impression that she was trying to seduce him.

It must have been because of his slutty Starfleet uniform!

 

[Trekkin]

Poor Harry!

Constantly the series whipping boy.

Beaten up (The Chute), killed off (Emanations, Deadlock), severly injured and close to death (several books), neglected for promotion (the whole series), making a fool of himself (Resolutions, Alter Ego) and raped.

OK, he's somewhat better in the books but there he has the bad habit of being severly injured and close to death in many of them.

I wish they would have made him more like McGee in NCIS who started as the series whipping boy but became a good and efficient agent. Kim remained the whipping boy during the whole series.

The original one is dead. No one cares because they got a shiny replacement.

At least he got to be right about the wormholes in 'Endgame' being their ticket home. After he'd already been chewed out for suggesting it.

 

[Refuge]

Poor Harry boo hoo! Not everyone is going to be a star.

Harry was not a whipping boy, he was just plain ordinary. That happens in life.

 

[Trekkin]

In Harry's case, it's his many lives.

What's he on by the end of the series, his fifth resurrection ?

 

[Gary7]

Harry Kim may have had feline DNA in his system. I can't otherwise explain why he was able to cheat death so many times.

Btw, if we want to get very real about all this, alien rape is possibly death. Biologically speaking, bacterial incompatibility. One or both parties may end up with something so nefarious in their systems, they'll either end up with a chronic herpes like condition or die from some other side-effect. But I guess we have to assume that, not unlike the magic of embedded universal language translation, that everyone is inoculated with a special serum of nanites that immediately destroys any alien bacteria. And sperm. Thus... no worry about getting anyone pregnant.

 

[Triskelion]

I believe that's what the transporter biofilters are for.

If we're getting real about officer's code of behavior, shouldn't Chak have faced court martial for striking Dalby in Learning Curve?

 

[Spot261]

All Harry Kim had to say was that he was already involved with someone else. Wouldn't it be a dishonor of a Klingon woman to seek out a man already involved?

Or just "no"? There is absolutely no way the show should have treated such a serious issue light heartedly.

Does non consensual foreplay fall under the rape umbrella, which is a step bellow what happened.

She bit him.

Is biting more intimate than kissing?

Although by human standards, that's probably what happened.

An unwanted kiss (with teeth).

It's not like she broke both both his legs, blew him, and kept the sperm for later.

Seriously?

It was an attempted rape, it wasn't ok and if it was going to be portrayed on screen it should have been acknowledged by the writers and their proxies (the characters) as the deeply sensitive issue it is, not a bit of light hearted comedy relief.

 

[Gary7]

Face value, the Klingon woman was clearly stronger than Harry Kim. She could overpower him if she wished. Klingons consider humans "weak", although acknowledge the intelligence and cleverness. We know Worf has tamed his view of humans. He recognizes that strength isn't all about physical prowess. Anyway, this leads up to the Klingon woman, who was probably having fun at intimidating and scaring Harry Kim. And yeah, knowing the Klingon way, she might've raped him if it was within her grasp. Well, Harry has to grow a set of balls. This was one of those wake-up calls. No rhyme intended.

 

[Spot261]

This is trek, it is a show that purpotes to deal with real world issues by recourse to analogy. There's no way it should have been light hearted.

@Gary7 I'm not sure about your assessment one bit here, if we are expecting the sort of standards from trek we praise it for then "he has to grow a set of balls" is hardly a productive insight. Male victims of sexual assault may well be in a minority but having their plight ridiculed in this manner on a mainstream TV show which has designs towards being a morality play makes me very uncomfortable, as do many of the somewhat trivialising comments made here.

 

[Triskelion]

Then don't watch Road Runner. The Coyote was trying to cannibalize him! And you might want to avoid the Three Stooges at all costs.

Look, nobody is trivializing anything except attempts to wring a pet social issue out of a throwaway skit played for comedy. Especially when you completely overlook the theme the episode was actually focusing on. (Remember it)?

You are attempting to judge "comedy" by dramatic standards, and saying that others are wrongly judging drama as comedy. Well I'm sorry but that was not Trek drama, and it was not taken seriously by the characters or writers because there was no actual threat of Harry ever actually having sex - ever. Case in point: any Harry episode.

All you have to realize is that Trek "comedy" is heavy on Lucy and light on social satire. Case in point: any Ferengi episode.

If you are trying to paint this as Star Trek's/Starfleet's/Fandom's Official View on Rape, it may be disingenuine and irresponsible critique. Some may attempt to browbeat others for serious issues over some mindless entertainment.

Some could even think the comparing of it to sci fi comedy trivializes the real issue, and dilutes the voices of people who really do have real world issues with this social problem.

 

[Spot261]

Then don't watch Road Runner. The Coyote was trying to cannibalize him! And you might want to avoid the Three Stooges at all costs.

Leaving aside the petty and obvious comeback that a coyote eating a prey bird is not cannibalism I'm not watching those shows, I'm watching trek. I expect the bar set somewhat higher.

Look, nobody is trivializing anything except attempts to wring a pet social issue out of a throwaway skit played for comedy

Because rape is hilarious.

Well I'm sorry but that was not Trek drama

Nor should it have been comedy relief.

dilute the voices of people who really do have real world issues with this social problem.

And none of them were viewing, or offended? None of them could possibly be reading or posting in this thread?