• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

What's in your 'head canon?'

Movies only in my head but the awful animated TV stuff is part of cannon, if I like it or not.
 
As mentioned up thread, I've been rereading the old Marvel series. I just finished the third omnibus which had a good 80 pages of material created for the British Star Wars magazine, which was weekly rather than monthly and therefore needed more material. Much of it is never been published in the United States before, including four Star Wars tales written by Alan Moore! I've decided to include those in my head canon just because of how bizarre they are.:lol:
 
I remember in the old Marvel SW comics, there were some cute, fuzzy little male aliens that would suddenly hit puberty when in the presence of attractive females and turn into giant hulking, angry beasts. :wtf: For some reason, my copy of the issue they appeared in does not have the Comics Code Authority seal of approval. :lol:

I am tempted to include the Star Wars newspaper comic strip in my head canon. From what I've read, it didn't seem as silly as the Marvel stuff.

Kor
 
Aside from the unfairly maligned Jaxxon and maybe the Hoojibs, the silly stuff didn't begin until Mary Jo Duffy's run began.

She's the one who brought us Zeltrons, Lahsbees, Hiromi and the Tof.
 
Occurred to me from another thread:

The "solar wings" on the TIE fighters are actually deflector shields. In fact, TIE fighters have more powerful shields than any other fighter in the galaxy, including (or especially) the X-wing fighters, whose shields are perfunctory at best. TIEs are as important to the Empire as they are because most starfighters up to that time are small craft like the Naboo fighter or the A-wing that are packing relatively light blaster armament, and a TIE fighter is basically impervious to those kinds of weapons. The cannons on the Milennium Falcon, for example, take quite a while to chew through those shields in "A New Hope" (but probably get upgraded later on by the rebellion) while other civilian ships and would-be insurgents barely stand a chance.

This is the whole reason the Rebels favor heavier fighters like the X-wing and the B-wing: it takes some pretty extreme firepower to crack the shields on a TIE fighter, and all the while they're pouring blast fire on you in sheets while you plink at them uselessly. So the Rebellion prefers heavier fighters that can take out the TIE's quickly and then run for it, while the Empire prefers lighter and more agile fighters that can hang in battle and wait for reinforcements to arrive.

Same with Stormtrooper Armor: it's basically impervious to anything that anyone else will ever use except for very high-powered blasters. 90% of the "Dead" storm troopers we saw through the original trilogy weren't actually killed at all, but the blaster fire hit their armor with enough force to seriously injure the trooper wearing it and/or knock him unconscious. It is entirely possible that many of the stormtroopers that got shot down at Cloud City turned up later at the Battle of Endor.
 
Uh no. Every TIE we've ever seen shot down was pretty much a one-shot. The only reason it took Luke and Han so long to destroy a handful of them was because they had trouble targeting them. If those panels have any extra function it's to aid in their manoeuvrability, which is what makes they hard to hit.

Also, think about it for a second: a space tractor jury rigged with what are essentially a couple of light anti-aircraft cannons goes up against four military fighters and they best they can do is knock out the lateral controls while most of them are destroyed and one presumably retreated.

Yeah, those things are hardly sturdy.
 
That certainly makes more sense than it being massed produced to kill their own soldiers.

It does make sense if the Empire's ideas for space fighters is emphasis on number over quality and the economy of supplying easily expendable man power is cheaper than upgrading the fighters with shields and armor. You do have a similar scenario in WW2 where the Japanese having more manpower than planes (and a weaker war industry) built the A6M Zero.
 
I wouldn't say being cheaper is necessarily a consideration. Indeed, I think a valid argument could be made for quite the opposite.
Clearly the Empire has a bloated military budget, mostly supplied by corporations controlled by oligarchs on rich core worlds like Sienar and Kuat. Giving them a fat military contract to produce the endless hordes of expendable equipment while leveraging the cost from poorer systems and outer rim annexations seems like a good way to keep the powerful and greedy in the Empire occupied while in turn using them to keep other factions under the Imperial boot. Seems like Palpatine's MO, no?

I think the underlying reason for the doctrine is basically twofold: first and most obviously it's an intimidating demonstration of power and generally doesn't require a lot of tactical genius to wield (at least where cowed and isolated pockets of defiance are concerned.)
Secondly, it reinforces within the ranks of the Imperial military the notion that they're only a small part of a much larger machine and that they must do their duty and depend on all the other parts to do their's. In short, it discourages independent thinking and erodes individual identity (see also: always wearing helmets and operating numbers substituting names.)
 
Last edited:
Uh no. Every TIE we've ever seen shot down was pretty much a one-shot. The only reason it took Luke and Han so long to destroy a handful of them was because they had trouble targeting them.
Which would be an effect of deflector shields, strictly speaking. With computerized targeting that shouldn't really be a problem. The last TIE in particular is coming at the Falcon basically straight on and Han's blaster fire seems to graze it on all sides; that, to me, seems like an effect of good shielding, plus a TIE pilot who is used to enemy fire bouncing off his shields like spitwads and doesn't realize how much trouble he's in.

For that matter, the same basic thing happens with X-wings and Y-wings, ships we know are supposed to have deflector shields but basically get popped by TIE fighters with a single hit. This, even after they've put their deflectors aft; it takes exactly ONE hit from Vader's fighter I've heard it said from some of the novels and background materials that it's because the TIE's blasters are unusually powerful for such a small craft, but it makes more sense if the opposite is true: the X-wing's weapons are unusually powerful, which is why they're able to take down TIE fighters as quickly as the TIE fighters can kill them in turn. But anything SMALLER than that would have a more difficult time of it.

Also, think about it for a second: a space tractor jury rigged with what are essentially a couple of light anti-aircraft cannons goes up against four military fighters and they best they can do is knock out the lateral controls while most of them are destroyed and one presumably retreated.
Actually, it's comparable to a C-130 getting ambushed by four Me-109s (which is pretty much what that scene is supposed to imply) and fighting them off with a couple of .50 cal machine-guns. Add that the 109s have been specifically ordered not to destroy the ship but to simply chase out out of the area, and whose pilots probably don't even know the ship they're chasing is armed.

Yeah, those things are hardly sturdy.
Not sturdy, just heavily shielded. It's also one of the reasons why any two TIE fighters that collide with each other tend to bounce away from each other rather violently (this happened in A New Hope AND in Empire Strikes Back). They're normally pretty good at handling low-speed collisions.
 
Last edited:
It does make sense if the Empire's ideas for space fighters is emphasis on number over quality and the economy of supplying easily expendable man power is cheaper than upgrading the fighters with shields and armor. You do have a similar scenario in WW2 where the Japanese having more manpower than planes (and a weaker war industry) built the A6M Zero.
See, there's this incongruity when it comes to the Empire that's always bothered me.

On the one hand, they see themselves as a kind of elitist, human-only force that imposes order on the galaxy and has an ultra-disciplined, ultra-competent fighting force with the highest standards in the galaxy...

On the other hand, we're expected to believe they are literally raising whole armies of completely expendable mooks who are wearing entirely useless armor and flying fighter craft that are basically glorified escape pods. You can't actually have quantity AND quality; if they were going for "drown them in storm troopers" then it would show out in issues if discipline and lack of unit cohesiveness and Storm Troopers would have a reputation even IN UNIVERSE of being little more than warm bodies.

But when it comes to troops, again and again we see that they aspire to some semblance of elitism, and not just the pretense of it. You don't "wash out" people who can't handle the battle stress if you're building a million-man army; you fill those trooper armors with every body you can find, and by law of averages that's going to include a huge number of crybabies, cowards, lunatics, assholes, thieves, liars, rapists and idiots. The "Quantity over quality" is what happens when the military says "If you're breathing and have a pulse, you can fly a TIE fighter." The Empire has never shown itself to be that.

Which is why I think (again, headcanon) that they actually maintain a relatively small force that has some truly amazing capabilities. This is part of the thinking that lead to the Death Star: you only need one (or two?) to control the entire galaxy. Star Destroyers and troopers are the same way: with just fifty storm troopers (and their equipment) you could take over a city, with a hundred you could take over half a planet. It is actually the REBELS who use the "Take on all comers" approach because they have to fight the Empire with a combination of clever tactics and superior numbers or (if possible), BOTH. Which is why the soldiers of the Rebel Alliance always seem like a gaggle of weirdos from all over the galaxy and a dozen different species with a dozen different motivations while the Empire only takes the best and the brightest and most talented of its favorite species.

tl;dr: the Empire isn't casing a particularly wide net. They look like they're trying to build the Master Race, which implies they're actually being picky. If they were just trying to fill as many cockpits as they possibly could, they certainly wouldn't limit their recruitment to humans.
 
My 'head canon' for SW (Legends, I suppose, the old EU) includes:

Marvel comic series up until TESB.
Dark Forces / Kyle Katarn stuff
Zahn's work.
Stackpole's work.
Rogue Squadron comics

Everything else is 'negotiable.' :p
 
tl;dr: the Empire isn't casing a particularly wide net. They look like they're trying to build the Master Race, which implies they're actually being picky. If they were just trying to fill as many cockpits as they possibly could, they certainly wouldn't limit their recruitment to humans.

The thing is that the Empire doesn't seem to need to build a Master Race. The human species seems to be, by far, the most populous species in the Galaxy, sporting several dozen "homeworlds" and a large number of Core Worlds with populations potentially in the trillions are human planets. Most other species seem to have only one homeworld and are no were near as common as humans.

Add to this the Empire also seems to have decided that it was best to just fill the human clone trooper ranks with human recruits since all their equipment was designed for human tolerances, making it so they didn't have to redesign their older equipment, nor design new equipment for other species requirements.

Add to this the Clone Wars could be seen as a humans verse aliens war due to the clones all being human and a larger number of the Separatist leadership being aliens of one sort or another (the major exception of course being Count Dooku, who would also fit as the Empire has branded the Jedi as the enemy as well, and there were lots of alien Jedi. The Galaxy as a whole would just conclude that Dooku was still a Jedi and that he was part of the grand conspiracy that ended when the Jedi tried to arrest/assassinate Palpatine and the whole Jedi Coup that the Clones put down....at least that's how the Empire would spin it).

It wasn't like the Clone Wars killed off a lot of the human populations. It didn't. Most of the fighting was on the planets of alien species or random "strategic" locations across the galaxy. Most of the people being killed were Clones or Jedi, with a small number of alien military or political officials in addition to all the droids scrapped. After that it was seemingly random alien populations that were get invaded, eradicated, or otherwise blasted before the Republic could respond.

About the only major human population center that I recall being in the conflict (aside from Coruscant at the end) was Mandalore, and it was a neutral system for the majority of the conflict that eventually got caught up in a Civil War that resulted in Imperial occupation.
 
The thing is that the Empire doesn't seem to need to build a Master Race. The human species seems to be, by far, the most populous species in the Galaxy, sporting several dozen "homeworlds" and a large number of Core Worlds with populations potentially in the trillions are human planets. Most other species seem to have only one homeworld and are no were near as common as humans.
That's an idea that doesn't really bear close scrutiny; humans would have to outnumber all non-human life in the galaxy by a factor of at least a thousand in order for their predominance in the Imperial War Machine to be justifiable on those grounds. If that were actually the case, the entire premise of the Clone Wars would be absurd; they wouldn't NEED to clone an army of Jango Fetts, they could have just recruited from all the human homeworlds in the first place.

If they're excluding aliens, it's because they either want humans to be the dominant species in the galaxy, or they think humans already ARE the dominant species in the galaxy and aim to keep it that way.

Add to this the Empire also seems to have decided that it was best to just fill the human clone trooper ranks with human recruits since all their equipment was designed for human tolerances, making it so they didn't have to redesign their older equipment, nor design new equipment for other species requirements.
That's just it: they DID design new equipment. New armor, new fighters, new destroyers, new weapons. The argument goes that the equipment they gave their new army was just a cheap imitation of the gear the Clone Troopers were using; the Storm Trooper armor won't stop so much as a tightly balled fist, let alone blaster fire, and the TIE fighters are just flying lawn chairs with blasters attached to the seats. 90% of imperial troops are supposedly canon fodder and therefore given weapons and equipment that is at least as disposable as the soldiers who use them.

But on the other hand, they cannot POSSIBLY aspire to that level of not-give-a-fuckitude AND still be the same organization of which Kenobi says "Only imperial storm troopers are so precise." (I mean, unless Obi's being sarcastic there, and I admit he might be...)

It comes to this: the Empire is going for quantity or quality, but it's not going for BOTH. If it's quantity, then the Storm Troopers are basically the dregs of the galaxy stuffed into cheap armor and kept in line purely by the combination of free food and plunder plus the threat of being executed for incompetence (assuming the rebels don't kill them first). If it's quality, then the Storm Troopers are elite commandos with relatively thick armor and shielding and also surprisingly high survival rates despite their many faceplants and wilhelm screams.There are lots of reasons to think the latter might actually be the case, IMO, not least of which is the uniformity of their officers and soldiers: all drawn from the same species, possibly even the same human ethnic group. The very few non-humans in the Empire are truly exceptional standouts like Admiral Thrawn, and a handful of inquisitors.

About the only major human population center that I recall being in the conflict (aside from Coruscant at the end) was Mandalore, and it was a neutral system for the majority of the conflict that eventually got caught up in a Civil War that resulted in Imperial occupation.
And yet we see in Clone Wars that Mandalore is basically a client state of the Empire, with various mandalorian warriors pledging allegiance to the Empire and fighting on its behalf using mandalorian-style weapons, armor, jetpacks, etc. This very same canon describes the wholesale enslavement and near-eradication of the wookies, the twileks and dozens of other not-exactly-human species that actually fought FOR the Republic during the Clone Wars.

Just saying, the Empire never presented itself as something inclusive or particularly beneficent to the systems under its control and never promised them anything except the (intrinsic?) benefits that come from the imposition of order. To this extent, the Empire ITSELF strives to be orderly, and that clearly involves a very narrow standard of who and what they allow into their military ranks as soldiers and pilots. This also means, necessarily, that they can't take just anyone, and aren't simply looking to fill TIE cockpits with anything that can hold a joystick. Their soldiers are (for the most part) disciplined and professional and relatively efficient, which means they're either very well trained or very thoroughly screened, or BOTH.

Which is exactly kind of military that does NOT mass produce an unshielded short-range fighter whose sole reason to exist is to be blown out of the sky in ridiculous numbers just so their enemies will run out of ammunition that much faster. No, I'm convinced the smaller size and reduced profile of the TIE fighter was an engineering choice: a craft with huge shield generators (the "solar wings") protecting the smallest possible surface area (a compact sphere) and the heaviest blaster armament they could pack into it without compromising the design. That would make TIE fighters impervious to anything but the most sophisticated blaster cannons or specially-designed shield-penetrating weaponry. This is why only four TIE fighters are sent after the Milennium Falcon in "Empire Strikes Back" and why the Rebels' mainstay craft has to be a huge super-heavy attack fighter that makes the ARC-170 look like a poor relation: it's so hard to crack the shielding on a TIE fighter that it's usually smarter to just RUN AWAY.
 
Also headcanon, because I realized I forgot to mention it earlier:

Anakin's original vision was of Padme being executed for heresy by Mace Windu (marriage being forbidden in the Jedi order). Anakin realized the truth of his vision only AFTER Windu left to confront Palpatine, when he realized that once Windu killed Palpatine, his very next move would be to investigate anyone who had associated with him. Anakin's marriage is an attachment, one that Palpatine clearly knew about and the Jedi did not, which pretty much implicates Anakin as a part-time Sith hobbyist.
 
Obi-wan Kenobi has been out of the loop for almost 20 years by the time he makes that statement. Clone Troopers were very good at what they did. Stormtroopers? Not so much.

They grab just about any human teenager who's spurned on by Imperial propaganda and then train them. The problem with the training is that they are trained to be a cog in the machine. No soldier matters in the Empire. You will use any one in your unit for your own gain and anyone can be left behind. You are a number. Nothing more. Same with TIE pilots.

The Empire, for the most part, doesn't have a credible military power to fight. They are a glorified police force that relies on fear to keep the locals in line. Put a Star Destroyer or three right over a planetary capital city. March around a few dozen stormtroopers and walker every once in a while. Keep a pair of troopers every few block on a major city as a reminder to the populous. Fly a few TIEs around with their screechy engine sounds. Keep the public in either fear or awe of the Empire's military might. (The new Inferno Squadron is suppose to feature a commander from a world that actively adores the Empire and would want nothing more than to serve the Emperor and its message of Peace and Order in the Galaxy).

The Imperial Navy can be run by the populations of loyal human worlds easily enough. To fill out all the Imperial-class Star Destroyers would take around 1.2 billion people. Given how the Grand Army of the Republic worked, that is likely the majority of the Imperial forces. With other ships and garrisons the Imperial military is likely around 3 billion people since the idea is to rule though fear, not force. The threat of the Star Destroyers is enough most of the time, and any one Star Destroyer can leave behind enough troops to cow a population into submission on reputation (that they gained from their Clone Wars era predecessors) alone. Once the Rebellion started fighting, they found out that stormtroopers were not as good as their reputation suggested. They simply outnumbered the Rebels most of the time.

When a galaxy spanning Empire (well effectively if spans more like half the galaxy with the other half being either Unknown Space or neutral systems) has several dozen human populated worlds with populations of around a trillion each, it wouldn't be that hard to fill the old Clone Trooper's armor with human volunteers and conscripts. The reason for he Clone Army was a calculated one. The Sith needed to provide the Republic and Jedi with a ready made Army/Navy that didn't need to be recruited from the galaxy at large, thus keeping the general population detached from having personal stakes in the war outside the Core Worlds. Most of the war was fought in the Outer Rim and Mid Rim, with some deep strikes to occasionally terrorize the Colonies and Core Worlds. But the majority of the Republic only new what the war did to them financially. How many services, food, medical needs, and other social programs, were suspended due to the need to fund more and more Clones to fight a war that was far away on worlds no one had heard of before. The idea was to turn the Republic sentiment against the Jedi...the people running the war.

It worked. By the last year of the war, the citizens of the Republic despised the Jedi for causing this war and perpetuating it. As far as the public was concerned, both sides were being lead by Jedi (Dooku being the leader of the other side), and that some people couldn't get food on their tables was all the Jedi's fault. So when Palpatine takes over, and the Jedi are killed off after was is said to be a Coup....the new Empire rejoices the deaths of the Jedi. Good riddance to the warmongering wizards who tried to kill the good and just leader that was Palpatine, a man that had stood for the people for over a decade (as far as they could tell). After the formation of the Empire, and the Clones started to be phased out, than the Empire starts to recruit people, because now people are willing to join them. There isn't a war on for one thing. They also feel their are going to do good work for the Empire to rebuilt what the corrupt Republic brought down. It was a decade or so before the more tyrannical Empire started to show its face anywhere except the Outer Rim....were the aliens/separatists had been.

It should be noted that the Republic worlds that were heavily oppressed were those that openly supported the Jedi, or those that had strong independence movements, or rebellious elements that had been risen to fight the Separatist forces. Groups that could put up a fight were occupied when they wouldn't stand down, and the Empire's Clone Army crushed them in the opening years of the Empire. It should be remembered that Palpatine was the leader of both sides of the war, and elements of strong resistance had been against his force of droids....it was roundabout payback.

The Empire's equipment though....is designed to inspire fear. AT-AT walkers are huge and terrifying. They are nearly impervious to weapons, by can be tripped up. Star Destroyers have their own problems, but TIE Fighters and Stormtroopers are quite disposable. If the Star Wars galaxy had kept the idea that there was an Imperial Army and then there was also the Stormtrooper Corps, than we could buy the Stormtroopers were elites....but they are the Army...the only Army as well as part of the Navy. They are in no way as good or as well trained as the Clone Troopers.

Also TIE Fighters, in canon, have no shields, until the TIE Defender, which surprises the Rebels. I can buy them having heavy weapons to punch through Rebel Starfighter shielding, and allow TIEs to damage capital ships. It might even be why their weapons are green while the Rebel's are red. The Rebels are making due, with the Empire is using kyber enhanced weaponry.
 
I thought only the first order was using kyber enhanced weaponry?

Apparently palpatine really doesn't care about races and that, he's doing it all for himself for power, remember his second in command politically is an alien, Mos Amedda.

The Thrawn novel did bring up that there is a mistrust of aliens because of the Clone Wars

Palpatine just uses that to his advantage
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top