WB's Justice League 2017 movie pre-discussion thread

[Mage]

BvS and Suicide Squad made boatloads of money in large part due to the novelty of the setups and the introductions of Batfleck and Harley, with Superman and Will Smith thrown in. Once the masses saw the movies, however, many weren't at all impressed. Wonder Woman will still get a novelty bump due to its setting and general character interest, but if people read this movie as "BvS 2 (minus Superman)"... Warner execs should be nervous, says I.

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That's the biggest problem DC is facing. BvS was something fans were dying to see, and it was flawed. Suicide Squad came, with some amazing trailers and really got us psyched. It also got less than stellar reviews, and I personally disliked it a lot more than BvS, which I still thought had some good moments. Wonder Woman, again with some good trailers, but people are cautious.

Wonder Woman, I'm going to try and see it theaters, but it will be a deciding factor for DC movies for me personally, because if that fails to grab me, I'm kinda done really.

Also, having seen the trailer a second time, I do think Jason Mamao will be the star of this movie.

 

[DimesDan]

Well, I know I seem to be an outlier, but I enjoyed both SS and BvsS and I also rather enjoyed the trailer for JL,

What I am curious to know, will individuals who refuse to watch the film in the cinema will then dictate to one and all why individuals who took the time and effort to see it in the cinema and enjoyed it are wrong and write massive screeds of pointlessness lecturing on how wrong they are.

 

[dahj]

I'm still a bit surprised they didn't just go with one of the other Flashes, that way they wouldn't have to worry as much about how similar theirs is to the Arrowverse version.

We already have Jay, Barry, Wally, Jesse, The Accelerated Man... they're running out of Flashes that didn't appear on the Arrowverse

If JL-Barry is a solo operator who's not his own worst enemy, I'm sure that he'll be different enough from CW-Barry to stand on his own.

Yep, that seems to be what they're going for. Judging by his Flash-den and the "I need friends" line he's obviously working alone, and as far as competence, TV Barry already set the bar very low so he should easily be able to clear that

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I like Batman and Gordon together and Wonder Woman's line about a new age of heroes. Otherwise... There seem to be plenty of cool looking scenes in the movie, but as a commercial this was a total dud for me. Boring and pompously self-important use of pacing and music, despite trying to fill the whole trailer with one-liners, most of which didn't even work well due to being out of context.

Also, barely worth mentioning but: who thought a shot of Cyborg's football career would be a good action shot in a montage next to real superhero action? That felt so completely pointless.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Isn't that an awful state of the movies to be in? Hopeful that Wonder Woman will boost Justice League??

There's no way I would have believed any of this 20 years ago. No way at all.

20 years ago was 1997. 1997 was the year that WB/DC released Batman & Robin with Schwarzenegger, Shaquille O'Neal's Steel and the Justice League of America TV pilot.

The only MARVEL "movies" we had to that point were Dolph Lundgren's The Punisher, Captain America with Matt Salinger and Roger Corman's The Fantastic Four.

So I guess you're right. There's no way that I would have believed anything this amazing would have come up 20 years ago!

 

[Christopher]

We already have Jay, Barry, Wally, Jesse, The Accelerated Man... they're running out of Flashes that didn't appear on the Arrowverse

At the time this movie started development, though, the show hadn't yet introduced any of them besides Barry. So if they'd started off with the decision to use Wally West to differentiate the movies from the show, then presumably the show wouldn't have used Wally (maybe they would've used some version of Bart in his place).

Also, barely worth mentioning but: who thought a shot of Cyborg's football career would be a good action shot in a montage next to real superhero action? That felt so completely pointless.

The same reason they included a shot of Barry visiting his dad in jail, shots of Lois and Mera, etc. They're humanizing the characters, giving them backstory and connections. Showing Vic playing football before he was Cyborg helps establish to the audience that there's a human being in there.

 

[dahj]

I like that The White Stripes seem to be the official band for the Justice League trailers, but if the next one plays "Seven Nation Army" in it, and a Lantern isn't in the movie that's gonna be some world class trolling right there

 

[DigificWriter]

I've never understood this assumption that there are going to be seven characters in the Justice League in this first film because, unless I missed something, this has never actually been commented on by anyone involved with the film and the only evidence for the argument seems to be an Aquaman teaser poster that said "Unite the Seven", which doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Gaith]

Also, barely worth mentioning but: who thought a shot of Cyborg's football career would be a good action shot in a montage next to real superhero action? That felt so completely pointless.

Having him be a major player at all is a weird decision to me. Not only do we already have more or less brand-new characters in Flash and Aquaman (Lex's Quicktime clips don't count as introductions), but "Cyborg" is an incredibly bland name, with a bland look and bland powers so far as I can see, from a completely unknown actor. (True, The Avengers more or less introduced Hawkeye, but his brief Thor cameo at least gave us a sense of his character, Renner was an up-and-coming star, and he wasn't positioned on the same level as the main guys.)

 

[theenglish]

This version is following the comics' modern league line-up and Cyborg is an inaugural member. That's why he's there. I no nothing of the casting choice.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Ray Fisher is/was a Broadway actor before being cast as Cyborg. So, he doesn't have many if any TV/Film credits.

 

[JD]

Having him be a major player at all is a weird decision to me. Not only do we already have more or less brand-new characters in Flash and Aquaman (Lex's Quicktime clips don't count as introductions), but "Cyborg" is an incredibly bland name, with a bland look and bland powers so far as I can see, from a completely unknown actor. (True, The Avengers more or less introduced Hawkeye, but his brief Thor cameo at least gave us a sense of his character, Renner was an up-and-coming star, and he wasn't positioned on the same level as the main guys.)

This version is following the comics' modern league line-up and Cyborg is an inaugural member. That's why he's there. I no nothing of the casting choice.

Yeah, DC has been really try to build up the character since the start of the New 52, I think it's mainly Geoff Johns' doing because he's a big fan of the character.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, DC has been really try to build up the character since the start of the New 52, I think it's mainly Geoff Johns' doing because he's a big fan of the character.

I wonder if the character's popularity in the Teen Titans cartoon had something to do with it.

Although Cyborg's use as a Justice League member goes back to the early-'80s Super Powers Team cartoon, the final iteration of Super Friends, where Cyborg and Firestorm were added as new team members (with Ernie Hudson playing Cyborg!).

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Yeah, DC has been really try to build up the character since the start of the New 52, I think it's mainly Geoff Johns' doing because he's a big fan of the character.

I wonder if the character's popularity in the Teen Titans cartoon had something to do with it.

Although Cyborg's use as a Justice League member goes back to the early-'80s Super Powers Team cartoon, the final iteration of Super Friends, where Cyborg and Firestorm were added as new team members (with Ernie Hudson playing Cyborg!).

Johns did right TT from 2003-2006. I surmise Cyborg's star has been rising in part because he's a unique character. Take a look at his fellow Titans from his generation. With the exception of Beast Boy and Raven, everyone else from Victor's generation has been a Justice Leaguer, but when they join you quickly see the rub.

When Dick is on the JL, he's Batman.
Donna is Wonder Woman
Wally is the Flash
Roy is Red Arrow
Starfire is Starfire, but she's so similar to Kryptonians, it becomes the niche she fills in absence of Superman or Supergirl being on the specific League.

All clone or legacy characters/power sets. With Victor though, there's no one else like him on the JL from the generation before him (Clark, Diana, Bruce, Ollie etc), or his specific generation of heroes. He's also unique in that he can fill a diversity slot, and retain his unique power set. Unlike for instance the GLs. The list of Earth GLs that serve on the League, past and present has gotten ridiculous. Hal, Guy, John (Black), Kyle (White Hispanic), Simon (Lebanonese), and Cruz (Latina). That's 6 GLs for one planet. 7 if you include Alan Scott and hi Starheart ring on the JSA. They all have green rings, and those rings all have the same powers and limitations. Where they different is the user's imagination, and by extension, how the writer/artist team choose to imagine their powers working.

Plus, Cyborg has been a fan favorite since his New Teen Titans days. The 2003 cartoon exposed him to a new generation of kids and in the DC DTV movies, he's a recurring character on both the JL and TT movies.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't know Kyle Rayner was Hispanic.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I thought Baz was Lebanese.

 

[RAMA]

I think of 1997 as part of the "modern era" of filmmaking. So even though it was a TV Pilot, it's hard to believe the difference in the execution in 20 years.

I don't think anyone would have accepted the "Giffen" incarnation in a big movie, though they'll probably be open to expanding the ranks for Justice League 2. Green Lantern is a MUST.

RAMA

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I didn't know Kyle Rayner was Hispanic.

Judd Winnick did a story 150 issues or so into Kyle's original series during the early 2000s, and revealed that Kyle's father was not Irish, but Mexican. Kyle's father had left his mother you see. People argue over whether Kyle should be considered Latino and or a White Hispanic or not because his ethnicity never came up again after Winick did his story (which you could argue is a retcon), and Kyle has no interaction with Latino culture and doesn't speak Spanish.

It's a touchy thing, you can imagine.

You can see for yourself how subsequent writers and artists have chosen to tackle Kyle's parental ethnicity.

Spoiler

From being an unidentified Irish man.

To being a Mexican CIA operative. 2002

To a more ambiguous but undefined ethnicity for the New 52 (2013).

I thought Baz was Lebanese.

Oh, you're right. I thought he was Jordanian. My bad. I'll change it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

20 years ago was 1997. 1997 was the year that WB/DC released Batman & Robin with Schwarzenegger, Shaquille O'Neal's Steel and the Justice League of America TV pilot.

The only MARVEL "movies" we had to that point were Dolph Lundgren's The Punisher, Captain America with Matt Salinger and Roger Corman's The Fantastic Four.

So I guess you're right. There's no way that I would have believed anything this amazing would have come up 20 years ago!

Agreed. The 1990s was a horrible period for DC & Marvel adaptations--Marvel in a pit of mediocre productions. Although the current series from both companies have had their share of missteps (Marvel more than DC), this is the first time in film history where successfully realized comic book movies have been the standard, instead of one great film followed by years of garbage.

 

[Gaith]

On the box office front, we should also remember that unlike last year, when BvS beat the similarly-themed Civil War to theaters by over a month, this November, Justice League will be opening a mere two weeks after Thor: Ragnarok.

Now, given its director, wild cast, and apparently mold-breaking story structure (Thor and Hulk on a cosmic road trip, with gladiator fights, Loki, Dr. Strange and Jeff Goldblum?!), Ragnarok is likely to be praised by audiences and critics for its humor, orginality, personality, and generally being tons of fun. And then, when the ink on most Ragnarok tickets has barely dried, Snyder will be giving us... this.

If you don't think the most likely conventional wisdom among movie critics and fans alike will be that Marvel and Taika Waititi put Justice League to shame, then, uh, we'll probably have to agree to disagree. Which do you think is going to appeal to Thanksgiving family crowds? (Especially with a Pixar entry opening less than a week later!) Hell, when all's said and done, Ragnarok out-grossing Justice League would not surprise me one bit.

Don't get too sentimental about your WB stocks, folks.