Simon Pegg confirms that, in Star Trek: Into Darkness, John Harrison (Khan) was the proxy for Osama bin Laden. And who went after him in the end? The U.S. Navy SEAL Team Six. The real-world parallels between Starfleet and USN are still there, even in the latest films.
Starfleet is a Space Navy (military fleet)
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Simon Pegg also said this, on-screen, in Star Trek: Beyond
Scotty: "His record goes back way before the Federation even existed. He was a Major in the United Earth Military Assault Command Operation - A lot of off-world combat."
Kirk: "He was a soldier?"
Scotty: "Aye, sir, and a pretty good one. His military service came to an end when MACO was disbanded."
Kirk: "Why? What happened?"
Scotty: "The Federation, sir. Starfleet. We're not a military agency. They made him a Captain and gave him the Franklin."
Very explicit line identifying Starfleet as a non-military organization. Starfleet is not the U.S. Navy. Starfleet is Starfleet.
Scotty: "His record goes back way before the Federation even existed. He was a Major in the United Earth Military Assault Command Operation - A lot of off-world combat."
Kirk: "He was a soldier?"
Scotty: "Aye, sir, and a pretty good one. His military service came to an end when MACO was disbanded."
Kirk: "Why? What happened?"
Scotty: "The Federation, sir. Starfleet. We're not a military agency. They made him a Captain and gave him the Franklin."
Very explicit line identifying Starfleet as a non-military organization. Starfleet is not the U.S. Navy. Starfleet is Starfleet.
And Starfleet serves multiple functions, including military ones. It really can be both.
And doing it for the lols basically. Or to help the maquis for her own ethical reasons.
We really don't know anything about the FNP other than the fact that it was Tom Paris's desired career choice, which he likely would have pursued had his dad not insisted on Starfleet. We can infer from the context they're mentioned that their territory is the ocean, and it is possible they may serve as the primary exploration force charting the oceans of planet, both above and beneath the surface. But that's all there is to say on the matter.
So it is also entirely reasonable that our usage of the world military, court martial, and JAG are equally outdated by the 23rd and 24th centuries.
Sorry for the delayed response. I had this funny idea but I'm usually on my phone here.
Legally, yes.
The more I think about, the more I think that "Starfleet is a military" and "Starfleet isn't a military" are in a sense both correct.
Legally, there is little difference between a military and legitimate paramilitary organisation (HRT for instance) as both are "lawful combatants". The former has a little more independence in terms of internal disclipine, punishment and one of two other areas (which Starfleet appears to have for the most part). But both are essentially fighting forces from a legal standpoint, so legally the differences between the two is largely one of semantics.
However, "Starfleet is not a military, it's purpose is exploration" isn't actually as irrelevant or incorrect as I thought. For instance, the USCG is legally, by statute, a military, however unlike the Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force it's purpose is not primarily military but law enforcement (this is even mostly true of individual Coasties seconded to the USN) and rescue (they are the lead agency for sea rescue for US waters). So a similar dictomony could exist for Starfleet and Picard - being anti-war - chooses to focus on what Starfleet does rather what it can do if required by external factors.
They presumably have submersible craft, which are likely capable of going deeper than today's submarines.
It CAN, but it isn't. It's a paramilitary organization that serves multiple functions, including (as the title implies) traditional military ones.
Or, for that matter, the Federation's starships.
I've always assumed it was more specific than that: that the Federation DOES have organizations whose statutory purpose is combat and defense, but Federation law prohibits them from operating in interstellar space and they are only allowed to operate in the territorial space of the worlds they belong to. The Bajoran Militia would be one example: if and when Bajor joined the Federation, the militia's operations would be limited to functioning only within their own solar system and they would have to transfer most if not all of their space assets to Starfleet or some other authorized agency.
The reason for this would be pretty straightforward: the Federation was founded by various species that, in the beginning, didn't really trust it each other and barely even LIKED each other but banded together out of necessity after seeing the benefits of mutual cooperation. One of the sticking points of the new alliance would have been how disputes were arbitrated and who got to authorize the use of force and how. The smaller and more paranoid members -- the Andorians, for example -- had real reason to fear one of their rivals using the Federation as a vehicle to impose regional hegemony so they wouldn't agree to any solution that would give any one world the ability to dominate others militarily under the Federation's banner.
And then they thought, "Hey, why not give the pinkskins that job? They've got no economic interests outside their own system and their fleet isn't even a real military!" This provided enough of a compromise to cement the Federation into what it is today, for four reasons:
1) The overtly peaceful nature of Starfleet makes it less likely for them to be the aggressors if a first contact situation turns hostile, which means they're also less likely to drag the entire Federation into a war nobody wants
2) Being focussed on exploration means that the fleet's peacetime operations will pay very real dividends in scientific research, particularly when it comes to energy exploration and natural resources. The information gathered by Starfleet can then be used to benefit ALL Federation members. Military organizations belonging to any one world would be more likely to hold some of that information as a state secret and use those resources to give themselves a slight advantage over the others.
3) Without a permanent military mission (not to mention their adherence to the Prime Directive) Starfleet must get direct authorization from the Federation Council to participate in hostilities. So if the Andorians or the Bolians decided to declare war on Krios Prime for some reason, Starfleet isn't allowed to get involved until and unless the Federation Council specifically orders them to; ON THE OTHER HAND, they'd still be able to hang around in the region, provide humanitarian assistance, and probably get right in the line of fire between opposing fleets and DARE them to try firing at each other because "First one of you assholes hits me gets a photon torpedo where the sun don't shine!" They are, in other words, perched on the legal edge of "military" with just enough power to keep the peace but not quite enough to break it.
4) Even if, by some fluke, Earth decided to try and impose a "Pax Terra" over all other members, Starfleet is an unwieldy tool for that kind of takeover and is unlikely to allow itself to be used for that purpose (as Admiral Leyton found out the hard way).
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Hooray for technicalities.
It's an odd distinction that, frankly, means little in terms of the story. Starfleet is the military when the story needs it to be and isn't when the story doesn't need it to be.
It's never been explored, IMO, because the political situation in the Federation was never really fleshed out by the writers.Hooray for technicalities.
It's an odd distinction that, frankly, means little in terms of the story. Starfleet is the military when the story needs it to be and isn't when the story doesn't need it to be.
But suppose the reason Starfleet isn't considered a military organization is because many of the planets that joined the Federation had a strong aversion to being placed -- even accidentally -- in the position of a "conquered world" by a belligerent and well-armed government? Say Betazed decided to leave the Federation one day and were worried about the Federation sending its military to stop them... except, the closest thing the Federation has to a military is Starfleet, and the civilian leadership of Starfleet isn't likely to go along with the forceible suppression of Betazoid separatists. And even if they were, the military capability needed to actually DO that isn't something Starfleet is likely to possess; their ships are primarily designed for exploration and research and their defensive capabilities are most effective for self defense or counter-offense. So asking Starfleet to conquer and occupy a seceding world would be like asking the LAPD to overthrow the Mexican Government.
My thought here is that this is exactly what makes ships like the Defiant and USS Vengeance so controversial. They're CLEARLY designed as offensive platforms with no legitimate exploration purpose, so they represent mission capabilities that Starfleet ITSELF has claimed they aren't interested in having. A fully militarized Starfleet is probably a political deal breaker for many Federation members who see its non-military status as part of the Federation's promise: "You are not conquered, you are not occupied. You are an equal partner among friends."
Ironically, most of Baxten's posts give voice to that exact concept: Federation members don't WANT to be part of "Space NATO" and they don't want to be dominated politically and militarily by "Earth and friends." And to the extent that Starfleet is OVERWHELMINGLY dominated by Earth and Vulcan in terms of its officers and its design and mission influences, a military Starfleet would be a manifestation of those two worlds' dominance over the entire Federation.
Bolians apparently DO have hair (like the woman in "Allegiance") but obsessively shave it off all the time.
Could be that they're just really really GOOD at cutting hair? The Bolian Military has a long and glorious tradition in the war against dreadlocks.
I think there can be an interesting comparison to the Star Wars prequel Jedi, who had weapons, ranks of a sort, internal disciplining and law enforcement capacity and yet seemed to be diplomats as much or more than law enforcement and saw enforcement as very different than fighting war.
Being capable of and prepared for it doesn't mean that's their primary purpose.
That was Macduff's self-serving interpretation, in context meant to be highly deceptive, and it seemed that the point of the episode was that the interpretation was wrong.
Even with the Starfleet of the original series it seemed to be, despite it having ranks, pretty different in style, with the writers and directors encouraged to avoid having salutes.
Being capable of and prepared for it doesn't mean that's their primary purpose.
That was Macduff's self-serving interpretation, in context meant to be highly deceptive, and it seemed that the point of the episode was that the interpretation was wrong.
Even with the Starfleet of the original series it seemed to be, despite it having ranks, pretty different in style, with the writers and directors encouraged to avoid having salutes.
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Since we are comparing Starfleet to a Navy, and the Navy's primary purpose is not war, I personally don't see any need to be averse to the distinction.
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