Poll The Doctor as Emergency Command Hologram

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And "prove something false!" is the worst way to prove something, like, ever.

Then you should have no problem defending yourself against it, amirite?

The simple fact is this: Of course you could accuse characters like the EMH, Moriarty, etc. of only simulating sentience. But if someone asked YOU to prove that you weren't doing the same, how would you respond?

 

[Six of Twelve]

You're instantly inviting questions that go back to the issue of genetic engineering. Is a hologram naturally more competent in certain situations or does it have an unfair advantage whereby you can simply programme it to be excellent in those areas. They opened a huge can of worms with the doctor.

Fact is... I'd rather have an ECH than a Harry Kim any day of the week.

Genetic engineering and what a hologram is "naturally" is irrelevant. A hologram has no genes, but is programmed and there's nothing natural, i.e. organic or biological, about them. But, yes, I'd rather have the Doc than Harry Kim. He'd likely be as good as a commander as a doctor. It all depends on how well he's programmed for the job.

 

[LJones41]

It's not a bad idea . . . for a temporary measure. But once a member of the command staff is available, as it was in "Workforce", it is no longer useful . . . until the next time. I still have memories of the Doctor and the EMH2 being forced to take command of that Starfleet ship in "Message in a Bottle". It's all about the situation and the moment.

But, yes, I'd rather have the Doc than Harry Kim. He'd likely be as good as a commander as a doctor.

Harry managed to prove in "Workforce" that he was the better commander.

 

[Refuge]

I don't think Harry proved to be the better commander in Workforce. It was like the writers had the Doctor make a watch and learn command decision that was better than something Harry could come up with and then Harry made a watch and learn command decision that the Doctor lacked human wiles to come up with.

One each.

 

[Voth commando1]

Moriarty and Vic both say hi. And what makes you think other most other holograms, if programmed to do so, couldn't simulate sentience every bit as much as the doctor? "Computer, create a copy of Tom Sawyer and make it so that he is aware that he is a hologram and wants to become something more than that." I mean, all it took to create Moriarity was asking the computer to create an opponent that could best Data.

Which, in turn, goes back to my question about ship computers. Since they clearly have the processing power and capability to create sentient life, doesn't that effectively make them sentient, too? And that the people operating the ship are intentionally keeping that sentience effectively lobotomized so that they can force it to work as their tireless, eternal slave as they force it into dangerous situations on a weekly basis?

He was stated as sentient period, I get you don't like it but that's the way it is.

 

[Refuge]

Remember in 'Author Author' when the Doctor's holo novel was distributed without his permission? The court struggled with affording him the rights of a 'person'. Interesting the word 'person' originates from the meaning of an actor or character. A representation of a human being if you like. Yet I look at the word and see 'per' and 'son', then think of Zimmerman and the Doctor being his son, a representation of Zimmerman's character, not just a program.

The Doctor was recognized as an artist. He was not defined as a program without rights.

His sentience began with his adaptation to existing beyond what his program required. Sure there were times when humans with all their human history could solely draw upon that history, but the Doctor had both his program knowledge and his growing experiences. His emotions may indeed have been programmable in their source but his reactions were individual to him. They were his sentience.

 

[Voth commando1]

The doctor really became sentient when he struggled with his decision in Latent Image-that was a key moment in his arc and I hear a favorite of Picardo.

He became sentient when he acted and reacted in ways that were not programmed into him.

What makes him different from Data is that Data was already sentient and was simply seeking imitation. The doctor's path was from simply a a computer simulation to a person with a concrete personality.

 

[Refuge]

I guess the question could be asked does a Commander need to be sentient to command?

Nah.

That being said the Doctor was not an 'it'. He had ego. He had aspirations. He had feelings. Just like humans he was the result of nature or his case.. programming, and nurture. The result was his person, yep person..ality.

 

[Voth commando1]

Imagine a ship full of holograms with the best possible qualities-Janeway and by extension Starfleet are nervous about that because it would render them obsolete.

 

[Refuge]

The main thing that would save humanity from being obsolete is that holograms compare themselves to humans or whatever 'design' they have been reproduced as. To a hologram that has become sentient it would be like killing their parent.

 

[JonVP]

Interesting discussion going on here.

I’ve always been a fan of The Doctor on Voyager. Maybe they went too far sometimes (f.e. the whole ECH concept), but it was always fun to watch.
Like with Data on TNG, the writers tried to explore the whole man vs. machine discussion. If a machine, in this case a holographic program, transcends its own limitations and starts to behave like an individual: do we still consider it to be a machine, driven by human made algorithms, or is there something more?

Just like The Doctor in the episode Equinox, my brain functions can be manipulated by an outside force. But does that make me any less human?

 

[Refuge]

There will always be questions about the metaphysical within humanity itself. Is my reality just a biological reaction? What about identity? Is that a brain function, a combination of physical senses and the environment? Do my senses even perceive the same environment as yours? Why are we different from each other? You ask a scientist to prove a theory, to show you a black hole and they will give you a formula and show its aftereffects. That same scientist will expect more from the religious person who has to prove God's existence. They will want to see Him.

Once spirituality, personality and sentience gets brought into the mix we feel the need to assign it a tangible source. For humans it might be the brain. For the Doctor he has his programs. Humans have memory. Holograms have a database.

The Doctor is not and has never been considered human. However like a human who has individuality and sentience.. the Doctor did too.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The Doctor was never activated as ECH when any humans were on the ship, and in Workforce it was a damn good thing he was there.

If you have a person who is more likely to be the only crewmember left on the ship than any other crewmember, it just makes sense for him to have access to command protocols, as long as he can be trusted which at that point he clearly could.

 

[Voth commando1]

Well given the poor security in Starfleet and the number of alien abductions/hijackings it makes sense to have the ECH.

 

[DonIago]

The Doctor was never activated as ECH when any humans were on the ship, and in Workforce it was a damn good thing he was there.

If you have a person who is more likely to be the only crewmember left on the ship than any other crewmember, it just makes sense for him to have access to command protocols, as long as he can be trusted which at that point he clearly could.

Didn't he promote himself to ECH in "Renaissance Man" so he could eject the warp core?

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

Imagine a ship full of holograms with the best possible qualities-Janeway and by extension Starfleet are nervous about that because it would render them obsolete.

Until that ship is in battle and the holodeck power grid is knocked out, making the ship suddenly empty and ready to be commandeered by the attacking force.

Overall, in an in-universe sense, the more I think about it, the more I don't like the concept.

I still think its usefulness is limited, and given the constant problems that Starfleet crews seem to face with the holodeck, I'm not convinced the technology isn't far too brittle.

Even if they were to do an ECH, it really shouldn't be the Doctor. While he's off commanding the ship, he can't be simultaneously treating patients. Presumably, if the ship is in such dire circumstances to need an ECH, there are probably a lot of critically wounded people that also need attention.

An ECH doesn't really need to be a hologram either, but would function much better as simply an automatically enabled computer program with no physical parameters. There's no reason to waste the energy to project it anywhere - it just needs to be tied into the primary systems and have command execution authority. It's primary function is the capacity to make sound strategic, tactical and ethical decisions based on available evidence from the sensors. It has no reason therefore to interact with its environment the same way a Doctor, or an Engineering Hologram (Reg Barclay?) would.

IF they were going to go ahead and make it a hologram, then it should be a separate hologram from the Doctor. The more you add to the program, the more likely you are to introduce errors. Additionally, I wouldn't want it to look like the Doctor so that the two could be clearly distinguished by more than just a uniform color.

From an entertainment / ratings perspective, ECH would have been a great way to give William Shatner a special guest star, 1-off appearance in Voyager, if they could've managed it. It's very plausible that such a hologram would be patterned off a dead historical "great" & being the late 90's, he wouldn't look that much older than Generations, and it would a big ratings stunt for them during sweeps. That's pie in the sky thinking, but still fun (for me) to imagine... though I'm not sure Shat would've looked great in a Voyager jumpsuit.

 

[Refuge]

The mobile emitter gave the Doctor an advantage over holodeck restrictions. Gave him as ECH, mobility that I'm not convinced an automated computer program would have. Think auto pilot and cruise control.. they don't cut the mustard. Be it human or hologram a physical presence is an advantage. And I hardly think energy saving would be a priority over actual function when the whole ship is in danger.

The important thing to take from the ECH is the word emergency. Operationally Janeway employed him when there was no other crew, thus removing the need for him to treat patients. Rather he be guiding the ship from the bridge than twiddling his holographic thumbs in sickbay saving power when there are no people on board to get sick in the first place. Obviously when those who are sick are reintroduced to the ship and someone else is on the bridge his usefulness as Doctor could still be needed. Holograms can multi-task too..

If say another hologram was used for the ECH one would want them up to speed. The Doctor not only was well programmed with Command data but he had a working knowledge of Voyager. He knew the ship, the quadrant too. I shudder to think how outdated holo or should I say hollow Kirk would be. Imagine all the posturing and stupefied speech? "I .. can..not op..per..rate these con..trols my shirt is too tight.."

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

In an emergency, you want the Emergency Captain (EC to be hologram agnostic going forward) to be dependent on as little of the ship's infrastructure as possible. You are quite right that the mobile emitter provides that, however there are a couple of points to consider.

The mobile emitter doesn't belong to the Doctor only. Any hologram can technically make use of it, including a separate ECH. If you were to make them separate, then both can be operating simultaneously, though the Doctor would be restricted to sickbay. I think this would be preferable given that the emitter can't be replicated.

The holo emitter itself is most useful for an ECH when the ship is heavily damaged and incapable of either keeping the main computer online or vital parts of the ship's internal computer network are lost - meaning that there's no physical link between a computer command and say a response from the engines. In those situations, physical repairs are needed, and thus a body of some sort.


That having been said, the Doctor has shown himself to have a pretty rudimentary knowledge of engineering at best. His ability, even with the emitter, to repair the ship would be limited. The ECH programming gives him, it appears, access to command functions, as well as tactical and strategic data.

Even if he did have those skills, any ECH hologram or program could be programmed with extensive knowledge of the ship it is designed for. That command data and knowledge is both duplicable and transferable. The Doctor's experience and memories are just additional data files, after all.

Additionally, it is quite possible that a physical body would be an impediment in many situations. Consoles are designed so that humans can interact with the various computer systems of the ship, but being a part of that computer system, any EC should be able to directly read data from key systems and make adjustments without the need to watch a console screen or tap buttons in response. It can just think it, and it will happen.

If the ship has been heavily damaged, it could very well be running on emergency power reserves and those reserves are finite. Projecting a force field and photon ECH will drain that power faster. Assuming the main computer is online, running an EC directly should consume a small amount of additional energy while the Doctor can roam the ship healing the critically wounded.

The most robust EC would be one that is a program which can be downloaded and project itself through the mobile emitter if need be. The latter, though is an extreme corner case for what is already a corner case scenario in which all crew are missing or incapacitated. The program is much simpler to design, and would be the first step in any ECH anyway, I would imagine.

As far as Kirk himself is concerned, any ECH designed off his physical parameters would not be him. The same is true of the Doctor himself. Louis Zimmerman the holo-engineer is not qualified in any way to serve as a ship's doctor, while the EMH is programmed with the skills of hundreds of medical professionals. Holo-Kirk's experience would similarly not be limited to the man of 100 years ago. As a result, would have fully up to date knowledge of the ship and current tactics, though we may have to deal with stilted speech. (I think that largely left Shatner's portrayal after TMP though.)

 

[DonIago]

Next up, the EEH (Emergency Engineering Hologram).

 

[Refuge]

I guess I see the advantage of an ECH as maybe not being exclusive to keeping a damaged ship running but more like an abandoned one functioning. The crew has been captured or are in stasis and are no longer able to operate the vessel. However if there are no other crew members AND Voyager suffers computer malfunction, engine failure or anything to jeopardize the integrity of the ship, whoever is in command has to deal with that challenge. Man or hologram. Being the ECH would never guarantee perfection, he might fail, just as a human might. A computer malfunction or the emitter being compromised might be just as devastating to a hologram as lack of life support or hostile attack might be to a human. A holographic commander would be as much a fail safe as possible with the ability to steer the ship, employ tactics, and if necessary whatever engineering (or medical) assistance he is programmed and capable of. He might not need to use this medical knowledge in a case of abandonment but if the crew is in stasis he might. He might not need to repair the ship, or he might. Same goes for a Commander who is human.

I favour the Doctor being the ECH, because of his 'experience'. The example being similar to Harry. As an ensign he came trained from the Academy. Yet seven of years of being on the bridge, real experience, anecdotal observation and critical observation is not something you can fully transfer to another human being. Such experience would be hard to put in a data base as well. So it probably seems like I'm suggesting the Doctor is lacking here. Compared to anyone on the bridge .. yes he is. However, compared to another hologram, one only used once in a blue moon the Doctor, Voyager's unique Doctor a member of the crew, is superior. He has learned, gained experience, developed command confidence. " Watch and learn". Says it all. Knows more about the quadrant and the reactions of its life forms and especially, the Voyager crew. If for example, he had to anticipate this very crews chances of reclaiming this ship it could be critical as to whether he waits, confronts or what other tactics he draws upon.

Actually I think the more the ECH mingles and experiences the bridge the better.