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Trek's lowest moment

I didn't go back and read all 40 pages, but I did a search that came up negative.

Has no one mentioned Spock assaulting Valeris in TUC?

That was a very low point for me. People got all hot and bothered when Janeway threatened Lessing, but this was way worse, IMHO.
 
If anything "godhood" and religion sit alongside tribalism and blind patriotism as ideas which trek consistently portrays as outdated, divisive and dangerous, representing the WORST aspects of our natures
Gods in Star Trek are a mixed bag. As is ascension to godhood. Just ask Gary Mitchell. Most are jerks. Q,Trelane, Apollo and others aren't exactly shining examples of positively. Our heroes reactions to them aren't positive either.
 
Gods in Star Trek are a mixed bag. As is ascension to godhood. Just ask Gary Mitchell. Most are jerks. Q,Trelane, Apollo and others aren't exactly shining examples of positively. Our heroes reactions to them aren't positive either.

Typically our heroes outwit them, gain the moral high ground and generally debunk the notion that humanity needs a higher power.

There are exceptions, "Q Who" being one, but even there the "God" is someone who more often than not comes off worse and on more than one occasions actually comes to the main characters seeking help.
 
Lowest moment is when Kirk was given a female slave to have sex with, and it's suggested that he did.
 
Say what? When?
This
Bread & Circuses said:
(Kirk is alone in the room, and is startled when a curtain is pulled back and the blonde girl appears, wearing very little.)
DRUSILLA: I was told to wait for you and provide wine, food, whatever you wish. I am Proconsul's slave Drusilla. Although for this evening. (pause) For this evening I was told I am your slave. Command me.
KIRK: It won't work.
DRUSILLA: What will not work?
KIRK: Whatever he has in mind, whatever tricks. You hear that, Proconsul? It won't work. I'm not co-operating. I may die, but you won't get any entertainment out of it.
DRUSILLA: We're alone. Please believe me. I've never lied to one who owns me.
Bread & Circuses said:
KIRK: Very good. (he tries a grape) Excellent.
DRUSILLA: I was concerned. I am ordered to please you.
KIRK: I've been in some strange worlds with strange customs. Perhaps this is considered torture here.
DRUSILLA: Torture? I do not understand. I do not wish to see you tortured in any way. (she kisses him) At the first sign of pain, you will tell me?
KIRK: You'll be the first to know.
 
Lowest ponts for me:
1. Star Trek V. Sad to see TOS go out on such a lame note. But I guess they were given another shot in the arm due to Generations.
2. Cancellation of Enterprise. Yes, it had it's issues but it was the only Trek we had at the time.
3. Star Trek Nemesis. Sad to see TNG go out with such a stinker.
4. Yar's pointless death in Skin of Evil. Yar was a great character. I guess test audiences didn't like her and/or the crew didn't.
5. Wesley Crusher leaving the show. Basically, the fans complaining about Wesley got the author character booted from TNG.
 
6. Star Trek: In Darkness. Such a lame version of Noonan Khan. And the big bad is just a bigger version of the Enterprise. Terrible writing.
 
Lowest ponts for me:
2. Cancellation of Enterprise. Yes, it had it's issues but it was the only Trek we had at the time..
Did somebody make all the previous series and movies unavailable? I don't think so. Except for TAS, they were available on DVD by 2005.
 
Has no one mentioned Spock assaulting Valeris in TUC?
That was a very low point for me. People got all hot and bothered when Janeway threatened Lessing, but this was way worse, IMHO.
- Euch! Yes, this was terrible. I feel uncomfortable every time I see it and can't quite believe Spock would do such a thing even under those circumstances (although, he has done some pretty questionable things over the years). What makes it worse, I think, is that he assaulted her in front of everyone, and that we get to see their reactions as well as Valeris' and Spock's. Some incredible acting all around, though.
 
Having read the first fifteen or so pages of this and seen Code of Honour mentioned quite a bit and even described as racist, I have to admit to being confused and surprised. Can someone please elucidate me as to what is soooo bad about it???
 
Can someone please elucidate me as to what is soooo bad about it
One of the complaints I've heard (which makes no sense) is that Lutan (a Black man) wanted to kidnap Tasha Yar (a White woman) because he was a Black man and she was a White woman.

Lutan on a visit to the Enterprise witnessed Yar giving a martial arts demonstration. Lutan wanted his wife to die in a duet so that he could acquire her political power. His plan was to kidnap Yar, imply to his wife that he (Lutan) found Yar attractive and the wife to challenge Yar to a duet, in which Yar would kill the wife.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that Yar is White.

If BeLanna Torres were in Yars place (and gave the same demonstration), Lutan would have kidnapped her, despite the fact that Torres is a Hispanic and Klingon mix.

The same if Uhura were in Yars place.
 
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Ooopps. Sound of realisation falling from a great height........!
Tenacity, many thanks for your explantation, but apologies from me because I wasn't thinking of that episode. I was mixing it up with "Heart of Glory". Oh well glory, honour easy mistake.............??!!
 
- Euch! Yes, this was terrible. I feel uncomfortable every time I see it and can't quite believe Spock would do such a thing even under those circumstances (although, he has done some pretty questionable things over the years). What makes it worse, I think, is that he assaulted her in front of everyone, and that we get to see their reactions as well as Valeris' and Spock's. Some incredible acting all around, though.
Desperate times called for desperate measures -- putting suspected terrorists in orange jumpsuits and torturing them in Gitmo was similarly justified. It is necessary to be made to feel uncomfortable by drama sometimes -- that's the purpose of art.
 
One of the complaints I've heard (which makes no sense) is that Lutan (a Black man) wanted to kidnap Tasha Yar (a White woman) because he was a Black man and she was a White woman.

Lutan on a visit to the Enterprise witnessed Yar giving a martial arts demonstration. Lutan wanted his wife to die in a duet so that he could acquire her political power. His plan was to kidnap Yar, imply to his wife that he (Lutan) found Yar attractive and the wife to challenge Yar to a duet, in which Yar would kill the wife.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that Yar is White.

If BeLanna Torres were in Yars place (and gave the same demonstration), Lutan would have kidnapped her, despite the fact that Torres is a Hispanic and Klingon mix.

The same if Uhura were in Yars place.

It's not so much that he's doing it because he's black, but rather that the episode so literally conforms to so many of the worst (and oldest) black stereotypes. The primitive backwater society, the ignorant tribal natives who can't grasp our modern ways, the black man stealing and raping women, the "counting coup" honour mentality, the noble colonials who only want to help them. They even dress like a western stereotype of African tribespeople.
 
It's not so much that he's doing it because he's black, but rather that the episode so literally conforms to so many of the worst (and oldest) black stereotypes. The primitive backwater society, the ignorant tribal natives who can't grasp our modern ways, the black man stealing and raping women, the "counting coup" honour mentality, the noble colonials who only want to help them. They even dress like a western stereotype of African tribespeople.

While I see the point on code of honour...some of it I don't. The clothes don't seem stereotypically African to me, though I suspect they may have done to the director. The story as written does play into some 'noble savage' stereotypes, but Picard does not result to violence or gunboat diplomacy. The quasi-matriarchal society flips a few things in regard to stereotypes too... this could have been aTOS episode, but Yar would have been Kirk and that aspect dropped.
The conversation between Troi and Yar objectifies Lutan...problematic because of the casting, but also depends greatly on the viewers own politics or prejudices. Depending on which interpretation of feminism you apply, it could be a failure by our modern standards (the infamous Bechdel Test.) or a forerunner to the sex-positive Emancipation celebrated in something like Sex And The City (something that crops up with Troi and Crusher a lot... even if they are doing yoga at the time. We will see them Sex And The City it a ton of times, even as far as the infamous 'boobs firmer' scene of Insurrection, and pretty much any time one of them starts a relationship. It's something rarer in the male characters...though not unheard of for the emotionally open ones like LaForge and Riker.)
All of the 'can't grasp our modern ways' stuff is also an interpretation that depends on the lense applied...on the one hand, they are advanced enough to be in contact with the federation and to have something they need (this is not a new contact, they are a known civilisation) but there is a massive cultural divide. As to whether that is an advancement question is something else... are the Klingons less advanced? The Ferengi? Or simply culturally different? At which point should that cultural difference be respected or decried for not being as enlightened as 'our' federation?
Compare it to 'Justice' where you have a very 'Aryan' looking group (arguably as uncomfortably monocultured as Lutans people here.) who are again objectified sexually at points, and the flaw in their society is deeply authoritarian whilst presenting as extremely liberal. The Edo are a first contact situation however, so it's a very different set up to here.
The Federation are not meeting Lutan for the first time, nor are they there to help...they are there to trade, for a desperately needed resource. It's actually Lutan who holds all the power in that arrangement, and acts in accordance with that somewhat bizarre made up culture (but Yar isn't the first kidnapped Starfleet officer taken for bizarre reasons, and she won't be the last, male or female....off the top of my head Spocks Brain is fine example of a truly bizarre example, and there are plenty of others backwards and forwards in Trek. Sideways too, if you count Krall nabbing half the crew in Beyond.) because the real power in the episode lies with his wife.
In fact, the two characters with most power in the episode are Yar (physically) and Lutans wife (I won't lie...I only remember Lutan name because people mentioned it up thread, I don't remember details like names in this episode, because I do t much like it either xD) while the 'Patriarchal' figures basically have to sit on their hands throughout (let's not forget Picard was often referred to as a patriarchal figure in a positive way before the word became more heavily loaded across contexts rather than just one area. He was a father figure, this is particularly true of Yar.) who are basically in what once have been the Kirk and Guest Star roles.
Now I could be mistaken, but there was no 'rape' subtext...Yar was portrayed as physically powerful enough to kill Lutan, even if he had political power on his world... but then Yar is also a Starfleet officer, with a starship in orbit and the Federation behind her. The only thing preventing her from basically walking away was getting the medicine for the other planet. Ultimately Lutan is the villain, and is defeated, not only by Yar and the Starfleet crew (specifically Beverly Crusher pulling a Bones in Amok Time, but also Troi who consistently advises on the situation. Picard may be signing everything off, but this is oddly an episode where the female members of the crew basically actually do everything.) but by his wife...who holds the real power.
It's a mess of conflicting ideas, and I do think the director had some serious issues...that's really where the problem comes from. He pushes for a certain kind of portrayal from the guest stars, he made decisions that from his viewpoint appear to be motivated by some kind of prejudice. There's nothing inherently wrong in portraying Lutans group as very....monotone, to a certain extent. The same happens with other planets in Trek, it's just a different shade of monotone. The way the director piles certain things up make it clumsy and uncomfortably icky. That is then magnified by an audience, particularly a modern one, (and I think particularly a modern American audience) bringing different viewpoints to it (and helped by a snowball effect, where the episode gets heavier accusations heaped on it as time goes by. Star Trek VI is as problematic in many many ways, but it's snowball only just started moving really.) When you put it alongside the idea of 'whitewashing' when we get films casting Ancient Egypt, Ancient Persia.....this seems an odd inversion, especially as it's a fictional race, and one that is essentially portrayed as neutral in the narrative (Lutan is a villain, his planet however is not a villain race like say the Klingons were, or, again, the Edo.)
Personally, I don't like the episode for many of the same reasons discussed here... but think it's important to be objective, not least as you can end up with a polarisation between people's opinions and angry division.
To me, the costumes consisted of a more Middle Eastern influence, and Near East for the awful turban things on the men. The female costuming was Classical Greek for the hair and pure eighties California for her jumpsuit. Granted, the Director then went straight for 'Coming To America' which makes the costumes then spin into Sunday Best for Little Old Ladies in the African Church....but it's worn by the men, which makes it lean Middle/Near East again. (Also, it has nowhere near enough bright colours for real Sunday Best)
I actually don't recognise many of the 'Black Stereotype' accustations the episode gets, but only because the negative stereotypes I am familiar with are different...different people get different stereotypes around them. That doesn't discount them...I definitely think they are there, and that the director brought those to the table. I am just not sure how they apply to the episode, and how much is actually there, and how widespread those stereotypes are in the first place. Given Treks past, I am surprised they were allowed to have two 'white' women basically perving on a 'black' man in the time period.
Its a mess, and I think it's squarely on the director.
In summary...Code of Honour...fucking awful, but not as absolutely fucking awful as it has a reputation for, and unlike some other low points, it's far from objective as to why that is. (I return to my mention of The Child. That has some objectively bad shit in that's present in the writing 'who's the father?' In precisely the way Code of Honour doesn't.)
 
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