What is DS9's Biggest Misfire?

[Prax]

The Dominion war story gives a clear message that humans, during crisis, are no different in the 24th century, than they ever were.

In contrast to much of Treks usual message of 'virtue is it's own reward', the Federation win the Dominion War largely because of two very unpleasant acts in their part - conning the Romulans into joining the war, and infecting the Changelings with a disease. It is unlikely they would have won without these acts, and yet they fly in the face of the Federation's values. I wonder how Sisko, one of the few men aware of both, feels about that.

When these two topics are discussed, it's usually focused on the morality of Sisko, or Garak, or "Section 31." It appears that Starfleet is quite complicit in both instances.

In In The Pale Moonlight, Sisko explicitly mentions that Starfleet command approves his mission to trick the Romulans. What he sets out to do is such a huge gamble, that we can imagine this approval would come from the highest levels of government. And of course, the Federation is rewarded for their deception.

As for the virus, when Bashir contacts Starfleet Medical to get Odo's medwork, he's denied. They give him subtle accusations of treason for wanting to cure Odo. They want the virus to succeed. If it had, the Federation would have been rewarded. In the end, Odo uses the cure as leverage to get the founder to surrender. So the Federation is still rewarded.

So I agree. This is one of the biggest messages of DS9.

 

[NinjaRaiden2005]

For me it would probably be making Sisko half-Prophet. It felt like such an asspull to give him a direct connection to Bajor and being in the last season they don't really do anything with it. There also should have been someone around to reign Sisko in whenever he let things get too personal like with Eddington and the Vulcan captain. Oh yeah, let's stop doing anything for the war effort to play a game that died out because people got bored with it, all so you can settle a petty dispute! Great idea!
I also feel that Sisko should have seen some form of punishment at the end for his part in the Romulan conspiracy. Safe to say Starfleet didn't let them know that little gem after the war or following the events of Nemesis.

 

[kkt]

Who was still alive at the end who knew about the Romulan conspiracy? Garak. A small number of Starfleet Command. That's it, right? That might stay secret for a long time.

 

[Prax]

I'm sure Romulan intelligence already knew. They may have been looking for an excuse to enter the war anyway. A major power like the Romulans wouldn't want to miss out on such an opportunity. They sat on the sidelines and joined the Federation at what was possibly those most advantageous time for them to do so.

Of course the common people will never know.

 

[kkt]

What makes you think Romulan intelligence knew? If they knew, they would have been mad as hell about one of their senators being assassinated. At the very least, they would have demanded Sisko's and Garak's heads.

 

[GabyBee]

Not producing a musical episode. Apparently the writers tried to convince the studio to let them do it, and they were repeatedly denied permission. It would have raised the bar for all future Star Trek shows.

 

[Prax]

What makes you think Romulan intelligence knew? If they knew, they would have been mad as hell about one of their senators being assassinated. At the very least, they would have demanded Sisko's and Garak's heads.

By introducing Section 31, and the expanding on the relationship between Romulan intelligence and SF intelligence/S31 in the episode "Inter Arma...", they've given an accurate(if superficial) depiction of how these organizations really operate. Those "in the know" know everything. Those not "in the know" can only speculate. While I'm sure the Romulan military, legislature, citizenry, etc, would be very upset to hear about Sisko, Garak, and Vreenak, elements of government, military, and intelligence, were probably eager for a reason to join the war.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

By introducing Section 31, and the expanding on the relationship between Romulan intelligence and SF intelligence/S31 in the episode "Inter Arma...", they've given an accurate(if superficial) depiction of how these organizations really operate. Those "in the know" know everything. Those not "in the know" can only speculate. While I'm sure the Romulan military, legislature, citizenry, etc, would be very upset to hear about Sisko, Garak, and Vreenak, elements of government, military, and intelligence, were probably eager for a reason to join the war.

I'm not entirely convinced that "elements of the government" were willing to exploit Vreenak's assassination, Inter Arma and ST: Nemesis do suggest that Romulan politics is driven by intrigued to some extent.

 

[SSOASS]

Plot lines showing a less than perfect Federation is what made DS9 the most "real" and relevant Trek series to me (ENT got into that a bit as well). The war was going badly ... a loss would have not been good for the Federation or really anyone, Sisko did what he had to do to prevent that. Bring the Romulans into the war, ask the prophets/worm hole aliens to close off the worm hole, really what needed to be done. Not in line with the vision of the Federation at the start of TNG, but much more interesting of a TV show Sisko's log entry (since deleted) was one of the finer Trek moments to me

 

[Voth commando1]

And also one that totally defeats the themes of Trek-if the federation isn't morally superior than the Romulans than why exactly should we cheer for the Federation?

 

[kkt]

Just because it isn't absolutely noble all the time doesn't mean it's worse than the Romulans.

If a country is ruled by realpolitik all the time, they'd be horrible scum... but if they're ruled by idealism all the time, they probably get conquered.

 

[Voth commando1]

You have one or the other to mesh both indicative of lack of principle either way

 

[Prax]

And also one that totally defeats the themes of Trek-if the federation isn't morally superior than the Romulans than why exactly should we cheer for the Federation?

I'm sure if something similar happened on TNG, the people involved would be exposed for it and punished in some way, rather then being rewarded for it(both the Vreenak incident & the Changeling virus).

 

[Voth commando1]

That wasn't the point of my question. If the Federation isn't above doing dirty things what makes the audience supposed to think there protagonists we can cheer for?

 

[somebuddyX]

It's not always about cheering on protagonists but simply going with them on a journey.I don't mind seeing Sisko doing morally questionable things in the same way I don't mind Picard being a paragon of virtue. There's room to tell both stories.

 

[Voth commando1]

Not producing a musical episode. Apparently the writers tried to convince the studio to let them do it, and they were repeatedly denied permission. It would have raised the bar for all future Star Trek shows.

A musical? It's sci fi not a romantic soap opera. It sounds very out of place honestly

Though I dunno 47 minutes of Nana Visitor singing wouldn't be that bad.

Heck they should have done a Jeri Ryan nana visitor DS9/Voyager duet. Maybe then I might have the stomach to watch it.

 

[Prax]

Many will cheer anyway. I've seen many defend his actions. Sisko's the hero, so if he had to cheat, it must've been for a good reason. The episode ends with "one man's conscience is a small price to pay..." which makes it sound acceptable, like it's a tiny, teeny weeny sacrifice for SAVING THE ALPHA QUADRANT(read in Sisko voice), but imo it's much larger than that, especially since Starfleet Command blessed this mission.

The very same writer of "In the Pale.." also wrote "For the Uniform" in which Sisko "becomes the villain." He's so desperate, and bent on revenge to get Eddington, he destroys a habitability of a whole planet, which he terms "Maquis Planets." As if a whole planet can be a "Maquis Planet." Conveniently, every single person just happened to be standing next to their spaceships, engine warmed, prepped and ready to go, and there are supposedly no casualties.

Anyways, Sisko is rewarded for this too. He gets his man, and never has to face the consequences for his actions. He broke a whole bunch of laws and violated the treaty in more ways than one.

If you're saying that these aren't likeable characteristics for a main protagonist, for many a fan, they are.

Ira S. Behr says of Sisko "The audience worships these captains. They're like gods, so I made Sisko a literal...god."

 

[Voth commando1]

Yeah a lot of that stuff you mentioned I really didn't cheer on I mean I was rooting for Eddington in For the Uniform, absolutely despised the half prophet stuff and couldn't hold my stomach with ITPM.

Maybe that's why I'm not big a DS9 fan.

 

[Farscape One]

I don't think it's a coincidence that "INQUISITION", which introduces Section 31, came directly before "IN THE PALE MOONLIGHT". We have seen some steps made by Sisko and other DS9 characters that seem dark or on the wrong side of morality in the past, but having Section 31 as an organization devoted almost entirely to using such tactics make Sisko's actions not only easier to stomach, but almost expected.

Think of it this way. This is something Section 31 would probably have done at some point during the war anyway. Sisko just happened to have someone like Garak on his station that can get all the pieces in place in a short time.

And given how long Section 31 has existed, I wonder just what other things they did to ensure other races join the Federation, or at least make them allies.

For all we know, the real puppet master behind the Narendra III incident was Section 31, knowing that sacrificing a Starfleet ship woukd, in the end, save billions of other lives. And it did, as we saw in "Yesterday's Enterprise".

 

[SSOASS]

The darker side of DS9 makes sense ... I always found the Federation is squeaky clean with the amount of people in it was pretty iffy (at best) ... along with their being no currency in the 1990s Trek shows. DS9 seems closest to TOS to me.

Pale Moonlight was damn near perfect to me, Sisko knew it was wrong, but went forward anyway and said as much at the end.
Perfect people get boring, Sisko never did