I "admit" it was a retcon? It's usually the Traitor fans who insist nothing was retconned, not me. Behold:
Star Wars Books Thread
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I "admit" it was a retcon? It's usually the Traitor fans who insist nothing was retconned, not me. Behold:
No we do acknowledge that a particular author who didn't like the book went out of his way quite consciously as a matter of fact to retcon it.I "admit" it was a retcon? It's usually the Traitor fans who insist nothing was retconned, not me. Behold:
If only I could be so unfortunate.
What was so bad about Troy Denning?
Fair enough. I did like the two-parter Crosscurrent and Riptide. They were set after NJO, but dealt with all new characters, so were very marginally connected to the NJO-on stuff.
I've found some of these people are Legends-only fans, so I think they suspect it's an easy way to discredit the movies somehow. I've also gathered that some of them think if Disney is just going to re-use the same story beats, they should've just left Legends in canon and built off of it (said people also seem to think that you could make a movie that has all the Legends stuff as backstory and it would still be accessible to the non-fan, so I question the accuracy of that opinion). You also got people who wanted all-new directions for the future storytelling as well.
It was more than possible to have movies from Thrawn to Legacy and it wouldn't be that difficult or complex to explain all the backstory to casuals.
Disney went the easy way.
Disney went the easy way.
Jesus Christ, listen to yourself speak man.
Why you're saying is morally wrong.
I'm just going to do what I should have done yesterday and ignore you, it isn't worth the effort to argue with you.
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If by "easy" you mean "the way that wouldn't result in a string of awful and unprofitable movies" then yes, that I imagine that was indeed a very easy decision for them to make.
Seriously, as much as I enjoy Zahn's work, anyone that seriously believes that his or indeed any of the EU novels would make good saga movies are utterly deluded. That's not to say that there's not some good material there: the X-Wing novels for example would be a solid foundation for a TV show. But a saga movie? No way. Nothing even comes close.
I also don't accept the notion that TFA borrowed elements from the EU. Han and Leia having a child is just a logical progression of the story. That he fell to the dark side is also hardly a unique idea. Indeed, in the EU they had three children, one that fell to the dark side, one that became a great Jedi and one that died a hero. This is a classic case of "Simpsons Did It". The only way they could have gone where the EU hadn't is 1) they never had any children or 2) their child wasn't strong in the force and became a horticulturalist. Neither of which would be terribly interesting.
There is a lot of cinematic EU material-the Thrawn trilogy, the NJO, LOTF, KOTOR, Legacy, Hand of Thrawn Duology, Dark Empire
Darth Bane novels.
I love Legends and I consider it my Star Wars.
Darth Bane novels.
I love Legends and I consider it my Star Wars.
I have to disagree (and I've read most of that stuff). The Legends timeline had gotten really complex at that point, with new original characters, lots of Galaxy-shaping events, and major changes for the main characters. Could it be done? Technically, it's possible, I suppose. But would it made a made a comprehensible movie that stood alone? I doubt that. I think there were too many variables, too many book-only events that would've needed to be in movies. It's not fair to expect a casual fan to read a hundred-odd books to makes sense of one movie.
On top of that, the movies were never beholden to the books in the past, so even if the reboot and new canon policy hadn't happened, there's no way the post-ROTJ Legends continuity would've survived.
The Thrawn books were good, although I'm not quite sure if they would make good movies; I have trouble visualizing that. NJO was just okay, in my opinion. I don't like LOTF and the Legacy stuff. The only KOTOR thing that I like is Knight Errant; everything else is too detached from the core of Star Wars (although I will concede that that era could make for a decent Anthology movie). Never read Dark Empire and don't want to. Started Darth Bane and hated it.
Fair enough. I do like both renditions, although I'm finding that I much prefer the canon iteration of things.
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I really want a horticulturalist book now. At least it would have been interesting.
I don't know if I'm explaining my thoughts on the matter well enough because I don't think its an exact 1-to-1 case of borrowing from Legends, so I misspoke in my original comment. The elements in TFA would certainly be logical progressions of the story in many ways that Legends already did. I guess my larger questions is why is there resistance (no pun intended) to TFA's plot elements, while there is acceptance of Legends' plot points?
Even if Lucas had written it, much of Legends would have been discarded.
Also, even there was an attempt at Legends adaptation, it would largely be truncated, edited, and whole plot points dropped in order to accommodate the film format. That's part of the adaptation process that often gets overlooked.
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The more
Perhaps you can understand why I was upset with the April 2014 decision?
The more Canon stuff comes out the less attached I am to the franchise. Honestly I grew up on a different Star Wars, I read EU novels, spent hours on Wookieepedia, spent so much money at Barnes and Nobles, I got invested in the characters and worlds.
Perhaps you can understand why I was upset with the April 2014 decision?
I try but I honestly don't. The books haven't gone anywhere, the world is still there, and I can still read them if I wan to. Canon status doesn't impact my enjoyment of them.
The most basic problem with having Disney adapt the old EU was the actor's ages. In order to get the best results out of the EU for the Heroes of Yavin you more or less have to start with the Thrawn trilogy, and there is basically no way you could really tell that story with any amount of justice with Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, and Mark Hamill as starting in 2014. Sure they might be able to do the lines and perhaps pull off the action needed, but the feel would seem off. These heroes are past their prime, which the Thrawn trilogy was set during. Luke and Leia are in their late 20s, Han is in his late 30s, to early 40s. Even if one takes out the pregnancy of Leia, the story just doesn't work with actors in their late 50s, early 60s, and early 70s.
Now if you decide to change the main characters to the likes of Rey, Finn, and Poe, the story might work, but you have to set them up first in order for the story to function, meaning you have to have another start before you go into the Thrawn Trilogy Reimagined. But then you still need a place for the Heroes of Yavin. Leia would have had the Mon Mothma role replacement fixed. Luke could still be the Jedi Master, but the situation gets weird. Han.....don't know. He could probably remain just like he is, just with different motivations, unless the new characters are his children.
Now if you decide to change the main characters to the likes of Rey, Finn, and Poe, the story might work, but you have to set them up first in order for the story to function, meaning you have to have another start before you go into the Thrawn Trilogy Reimagined. But then you still need a place for the Heroes of Yavin. Leia would have had the Mon Mothma role replacement fixed. Luke could still be the Jedi Master, but the situation gets weird. Han.....don't know. He could probably remain just like he is, just with different motivations, unless the new characters are his children.
I suppose as the technology improves you could apply CGI with the actor's likeness have voice actors or actual actors for the novel characters.
The NJO for example I imagine would be very expensive to film but it could be done with a willing studio that was actually invested in the material.
The NJO for example I imagine would be very expensive to film but it could be done with a willing studio that was actually invested in the material.
NJO has too much backstory in the EU to be a viable starting point. While TFA has lots of questions going on in it, NJO would have those questions be also expect the audience to know all that already. Suddenly you have three Solo siblings all around the age of 20, a Jedi Order of 100 or so, The Empire still exists but is at peace with the Republic. Dozens of new characters that the audience is already suppose to know as well as the Heroes of Yavin know them. Then you throw in a massive galactic invasion of top of them and crush a Wookiee under a moon to set the mood for the rest of the series.
And that is before you get into expensive special effects and rendering the Vong, their armor, weapons, and total organic tech environments.
Add to this that we don't get a POV character. The three Solos know everybody since they grew up adventuring with their parents and uncle (many times unwillingly due to kidnaping attempts). So the audience doesn't get a surrogate into the galaxy to ask the questions about what is going on, who is that, why should I care about this? With TFA we get Rey and Finn, who both know only so much....Rey's been isolated on Jakku, and Finn has only known the First Order since he was little. They are experiencing the larger galaxy for the first time, so they can ask those questions and be about where the audience is for the most part....semi in the dark. NJO series was not written that way. It was written with established characters for a audience that knows who most of the people are. The way to get to that point was to start with the Thrawn Trilogy where the first wave of the new characters and situation is introduced. When the Heroes of Yavin were still POV characters for the audience, since they were still learning about things.
And that is before you get into expensive special effects and rendering the Vong, their armor, weapons, and total organic tech environments.
Add to this that we don't get a POV character. The three Solos know everybody since they grew up adventuring with their parents and uncle (many times unwillingly due to kidnaping attempts). So the audience doesn't get a surrogate into the galaxy to ask the questions about what is going on, who is that, why should I care about this? With TFA we get Rey and Finn, who both know only so much....Rey's been isolated on Jakku, and Finn has only known the First Order since he was little. They are experiencing the larger galaxy for the first time, so they can ask those questions and be about where the audience is for the most part....semi in the dark. NJO series was not written that way. It was written with established characters for a audience that knows who most of the people are. The way to get to that point was to start with the Thrawn Trilogy where the first wave of the new characters and situation is introduced. When the Heroes of Yavin were still POV characters for the audience, since they were still learning about things.
Hmm maybe my post wasn't made.
Basically use CGi for movie characters and actual actors for novel characters with enough money any novel series could be made.
Basically use CGi for movie characters and actual actors for novel characters with enough money any novel series could be made.
That point is the easy point. You can't fix the story background problem with CGI. That can only be solved with story, and NJO is not a good starting point with the huge backlog of characters, places, and situations that the audience is already expected to know going into the series.
Which would basically mean, recast everyone and start over only a few years after Return of the Jedi. And while that might be fun, people wanted to see the original actors in their roles again.
Which would basically mean, recast everyone and start over only a few years after Return of the Jedi. And while that might be fun, people wanted to see the original actors in their roles again.
You could have a series from Truce at Bakura imagine Ssi-Ruuk to NJO and afterwards various series of movies made somewhat in the same vein as Marvel but sti ll faithful to the material.
Also the movies themselves would generate some interest in the books allowing some people to understand what is going on.
What I would fear for the Vong is they would tone down the religion and pain aspects not to mention their relationship with the force. They do that they've sucked out the thematic heart of the series.
Also the movies themselves would generate some interest in the books allowing some people to understand what is going on.
What I would fear for the Vong is they would tone down the religion and pain aspects not to mention their relationship with the force. They do that they've sucked out the thematic heart of the series.
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