Star Trek Beyond final Enterprise timelapse
- Thread starter captain3ddd
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Look at the diagram, even. The wrapped section above the release mechanism is only two decks high. The section beneath the spine of the ship is at least twice that height.And this is where I see the massive open space in the saucer, wrapping around the rear quarter:
Still very unlikely, for the reasons already described: for the "Mall" to be in engineering beneath the fuel tanks, that would require multiple unnecessary trips back and forth between the saucer and the engineering section for those scenes to actually occur the way they do. To wit: Kirk, McCoy, Spock and Uhura would all have to walk past several turbolift stations just to GET tot his space, walk through it, find a turbolift to the saucer, change clothes, ride BACK down to this space, then get on another turbolift to get tot he bridge.
It's like seeing a person at work wearing a red shirt and then seeing him clock out for the day thirty minutes later now wearing a blue shirt. What's the more likely explanation: that he drove all the way home, changed his shirt, then drove all the way back to work to clock out and is now heading home again? Or that he brought a fresh shirt with him and changed at the end of the day? He's not carrying the red shirt NOW, so that one's probably still in his office.
Same thing here: "the Mall" seems to be the place everyone goes when looking to obtain a fresh uniform, so it makes no sense for that space to be in engineering when crew habitation is in the saucer section.
And all that before we start asking ourselves why the Enterprise's design would require the entire crew to walk two hundred meters through the ship's warp core complex AND underneath a huge storage area for warp core reactant and volatile chemicals in order to reach a turbolift to the saucer section. That makes NO sense. Even marching Khan through that space is incomprehensible since there's a perfectly good turbolift in the shuttlebay that would let them bypass that entire compartment. It simply makes more sense for that entire scene to be AFTER the turbo ride from the shuttle bay and it's really just the last thirty or forty meters on the way to the brig.
The space we're talking about isn't even depicted in the cutaway, so I'm not sure why you keep saying this.
Two decks??
In the videogame, there are equipment/locker/changing rooms off the brewery and shuttlebay.
They're movies. Marching Khan through the massive engineering section on the way from the shuttlebay is far more visually interesting than having the scene take place with all the characters standing still in a direct turbolift between the shuttlebay and brig.
Besides, that we see people walking through the engineering brewery on the way to and from the shuttlebay (and once more in a deleted scene immediately before that infamous Into Darkness Kirk/Carol scene) suggests that there likely isn't a quicker route.
Two decks. Remember, the scene pans through this area and arrives at the compartment BELOW the catwalk Uhura's standing on, which is where the second deck is. Plus there's the catwalk in the distance there, towards where the Kraalguy falls. It's not on the same level as Uhura, but it's also not far enough down for there to be a third deck there and it's probably a crawlspace access or something.
From the video you linked, at the 1:15 mark
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Not only is this space not more than two decks high, it isn't LONG enough to be the same space from the timelapse. The compartment shown here is a curved open space that could easily wrap around the entire inner core of the saucer but only has a thickness of about 10 meters. The open space from the timelapse runs LINEARLY along the rear panel of the saucer and is easily 70 meters long or more.
We never have access to the brewery in the game. That entire section of engineering is entirely bypassed by the turbolift at the very FRONT of the shuttlebay. The equipment/locker rooms are accessible through a compartment very close to the actual shuttle stations (which only makes sense) but they're only for stowing equipment like space suits, phaser rifles, grenades, tricorders, etc. The same sort of lockers exist in the transporter room for the same basic reason.
Uniform changes is a different thing. An officer first coming aboard the ship is issued a certain amount of personal items that are then stowed in his or her quarters or otherwise transferred there. This includes uniforms, boots, toiletries, any portable devices (PADDs, communicators, etc) that a person is expected to keep in their possession at all times. Some of these things will need to be signed for by the recieving officer and logged with the quartermaster or whatever the equivalent logistics person is.
Sure, but so would marching him through a corridor or, for that matter, something approximating the actual shuttlebay.
But playing the "it's only a movie" card doesn't give us an explanation IN UNIVERSE why they would do something this ridiculous. Really, they wouldn't be walking a dangerous lunatic under heavily armed guard through their actual engine room if they had a choice. They MIGHT walk him through the big cavernous space that contains the ship's fabrication machinery, though, if they wanted to drop off all the weapons they confiscated from him first.
Yes, through the catwalks above the tankage as before. It's not AT ALL clear that these are the same two parts of the ship, especially in light of the turbolift ride in ST09. Which is my entire point: it doesn't seem likely for the "upper brewery" to be above the Mall. The way you're implying because on the Enterprise that second space is in a part of the Enterprise that is the farthest point from just about everything and there's no reason for the crew to be walking through their all the time. If it's in the saucer section, then it's in the MIDDLE of everything, so one would actually expect to see people walking through their on the way to and from engineering. And now with the timelapse scene we have a pretty good idea of where that space most likely is. PLUS, the possibility that it's the same space as the separation room is pretty unlikely, as the space we see in the timelapse is much higher and extends further aft.
It's also not clear exactly why Kirk and Carol are even going to the shuttlebay in the first place. That whole scene can only make sense if and when we understand why she had to go all the way to a shuttlecraft to change her uniform. It occurs to me that if her transfer orders were faked, then the Enterprise computer and the quartermaster both have no idea that she's even on board and that any attempt to use the turbolifts -- or requisition a fresh uniform from the fabricators -- would set off alarms and she's basically living out of a suitcase hoping that nobody but Spock catches on.
Interestingly, it's equally unclear in TOS whether engineering is in the saucer or the secondary hull, for some of the same reasons. While there isn't much debate about the Warp Core in this case, The Mall gets enough foot traffic that it's probably not part of engineering.
Not only is this space not more than two decks high,
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The physical set construction was 2 decks high, the CG extents are larger. The lower level of the set has railings either side because it's not the lowest level of the "complete" area.
I'm not saying it's the same area, just it's rough analogue on this new Enterprise.
Jim Kirk was a stowaway, he wouldn't have had an assigned uniform.
Note also that we see that Hendorff and the other redshirt are ordered to change in the shuttlebay - indicating there are likely facilities to do so nearby.
Does everything NEED an explanation in-universe? I went back to the ST'09 script, and for what it's worth the Pike/Spock/Kirk walk to the shuttlebay was originally set in a corridor. I suspect the scene in Into Darkness was done as such because the first movie established a walk through the brewery is necessary to reach the shuttlebay as well as the cool visual of Khan being marched through.
I suspect we should limit the number of
She was changing into a flight suit in preparation for the shuttle flight to the deserted asteroid. Shuttle flight suits are apparently located in the shuttles.
If it makes you happy to think it, by all means go ahead. I'll go with what I think's right (and that the cutaway depicts, which depicts the brewery as being used exclusively in engineering)
It's not THAT much larger. There doesn't seem to be enough space beneath the lower level for even a full deck. A Jeffries tube, maybe, but not a whole additional level of the ship.
I know what your saying. I'm saying that for a "rough analog" it's a hell of a lot LARGER, too large to serve the exact same purpose. That's why I think it's a cleaned up version of the machinery space in the saucer section that everyone keeps walking through for some reason.
And he didn't GET one. They gave him a black shirt and pants so he could change out of his academy tunic. Bones probably pulled the "this man is my patient!" card in requisitions too (it's actually a classic Bones move; he's really good at selling it!) So I mean, that's another problem for this issue: if you're claiming that they get all their uniforms and gear from somewhere in the shuttlebay, then there's no reason why Kirk would still have the Academy uniform having already LEFT the shuttlebay.
Didn't Kirk HAND them their civilian clothes, though? I don't recall him sending the security guys off to a closet somewhere.
LOL are you new here or something?
Doubtful, since everyone who boarded the shuttle on the way TO the Enterprise was already wearing one.
I'm still puzzled as to why you think those two completely different areas must automatically be the same exact feature seen from different angles. That's such a weird leap to make considering the flow of the scenes imply they're actually nowhere near each other.
You guys aren't having a Starship Size Argument in here, are you?
How can we expect peoples to explore strange new worlds when they can't even fit inside the shuttlebay?
I'm walking away, it doesn't matter. As @Crazy Eddie said above, people can't agree on the layout of the original Enterprise 50 years later. This won't get solved.You guys aren't having a Starship Size Argument in here, are you?
I just finished watching the movie again, and that weird cavity that stretches back from the bridge. The bridge and the long spine like projection behind it are all lowered as one unit, that spine is what is pushed into the trench going all the way back to the engines.
It looks like the nacelles and impulse drive were built elsewhere and all lowered on/in during the final stages of production.
It looks like the nacelles and impulse drive were built elsewhere and all lowered on/in during the final stages of production.
