Born-Again Picard

[Mojochi]

I've been thinking about the last year of the series, wherein Wesley abandons Starfleet, in a rather headbutting fashion with Picard, Ro Laren straight up turns her back on Starfleet & Picard's mentorship. Sito Jaxa, who he'd personally brought aboard so she could get a fair shake after the academy debacle, dies on a mission he picks her for. In Bloodlines, he meets a man who could be his son, but he learns isn't, & then the finale events which show him a future where his friends all drift apart in one way or another. It really was something of a humbling year for him.

Then in the first TNG movie, which seems to take place very soon after the show ended, the rest of the Picard lineage is snuffed out, & he gets sucked up in a dream world wherein he's dreaming of a family he wouldn't otherwise have. It all makes me wonder. I hear a lot of complaints (Even added to them myself) about how TNG movie "Action" Picard seems unlike the more reserved & mindful Picard of the series, but could we consider this an evolution of sorts?

All these events leading up to his 1st poker game at the end of the show, & then losing his brother & nephew, could they have contributed to a emotional & psychological shift in the man? Maybe even meeting Jim Kirk played a part, & if we can assume something like this is happening, is it a healthy psyche change, or an unhealthy one?

 

[USS Triumphant]

I'd say that he seems to have decided that he needs to take more risks, because of all of the examples of how fleeting life can be and how sometimes all of your careful and calculated plans can go for naught. I'm not sure that I would classify it as healthy or unhealthy, except maybe in First Contact when he goes a little too far and Lily has to rein him in. I'm pretty sure an actuary would not see it as a good thing, though.

 

[2takesfrakes]

There's also another possibility -- indeed, a probability -- which is that Captain Jean-Luc Picard is, quite simply, experiencing a Mid-Life Crisis. A 2nd Childhood, of sorts, not necessarily started because of -- though certainly magnified by -- being surrounded by so much rejection and death. Life is passing him by, which really comes to a head with Nemesis. Initially, perhaps, Picard's friendship with Riker was intended to be more akin to brothers, like what Kirk & Spock were like. But, due to the age difference, Picard quickly became more of a Father figure to Riker. So, now, Riker's marrying himself off and finally accepts his own command, so Picard has to dominate his wedding reception and brag about his own virility and prowess ...

The very first indications of Picard's potential for a major Mid-Life Crisis were when he started seeing much younger women, during the series. His attitude, of course was: A) "I'm the Captain," B) "I'm a Frenchman," and C) "If the age difference doesn't bother her ... then, it doesn't bother me." By the time he started becoming Action Picard, short-skirted crumpets no longer did the trick ... he needed something more to recapture that feeling of being young, again. He needed that thrill ... so, naturally, we start seeing him driving ATV's across open country on alien planets at unsafe velocities and mowing down Borg with a Tommy Gun and Diving into the Fountain of Youth ...

... I mean, it's OK ... you know? He's Human.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think Picard fundamentally changed in between, I just think the nature of movies require more action scenes and less talking the enemy out of starting a war.

 

[Mojochi]

There's also another possibility -- indeed, a probability -- which is that Captain Jean-Luc Picard is, quite simply, experiencing a Mid-Life Crisis. .

I've considered that as well, which is why I pondered whether it might be healthy or unhealthy, this change in character

I don't think Picard fundamentally changed in between, I just think the nature of movies require more action scenes and less talking the enemy out of starting a war.

Really? I mean I'm not saying you're wrong, but doesn't the one sort of shape the other? That he leans more toward action, risk & bravado etc... is of course because we want those thrills in a movie, but it does reflect on his character also

One of the things I've found myself doing over the years since the show & movies, is piecing together arcs for at least some of the characters. Even though the primary nature of the show was episodic, I do feel that there is a small glint of character arcing, which might have even been inadvertent, as in this case. Despite being mostly just to appease the forms & such, looking on these characters as a whole, you can't help but see the changing life of a man... that all of the different pieces they threw out there do actually add up to something

I've done the same with Riker, who in retrospect, seems now almost like a guilt riddled man, that strives for career drive, & heroism as a means to overcome the shadows of his early career mistake on the Pegasus. You can piece together a pretty well rounded character, if you do a little leg work

The same is true of Data, with all the inconsistencies in his state of emotion or emotionlessness, & his technical idiosyncrasies, which could all be explained by him not truly knowing everything about himself, enough to know what he's truly capable of. In retrospect, he plays like a person in the dark discovering that everything he thought he was isn't necessarily so

And then there's Picard, who seems very firmly planted & stable in the early seasons, but by the end, they chip away at him with people abandoning him & tragic personal losses, & personal damage sustained from ugly encounters, all of which amount to some turning point in him, where he either losses something of his former self... or frees himself of it. Either way, it's certainly a way to reconcile the inconsistency

 

[Timo]

I don't think Picard fundamentally changed in between, I just think the nature of movies require more action scenes and less talking the enemy out of starting a war.

Regarding this, Picard would have had the opportunity to do action scenes during the run of the TV show already - it's just that it would have happened offscreen for a combination of in-universe and out-universe reasons. Picard itches to drive a dune buggy in the late 2370s, but for all we know he has been doing that very thing since the mid-2360s on the holodeck. Picard doesn't date teens in the early seasons of the show, but is quite comfortable with the likes of Minuet. We know Picard has rather vigorous hobbies, equestrian, gumshoe, gore-and-mud Shakespeare, what-have-you. By necessity of his mission parameters, it just all has to be virtual rather than physical.

Does Picard get wilder in the movies past ST:GEN? Or does he merely get a chance to play his usual games for real more often? He "suddenly" mows down Borg with a tommy-gun, yes - but that's specifically because tommy-gunning is his longtime hobby. He "suddenly" drives a dune buggy, but merely on top of his longterm hobby of cross-country riding. And it's not as if openly sharing these hobbies with his fellow officers would be a novel thing: he has had quite a camaderie with Riker and Data on his holoadventurism, and has even dragged Crusher and Guinan to his escapades early on.

I don't want to speak against a personality change. I just feel that a change in actual behavior might not be all that visible here.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[2takesfrakes]

I've considered that as well, which is why I pondered whether it might be healthy or unhealthy, this change in character

I believe that experiencing a Mid-Life Crisis is "healthy" in the sense that it's a sort of "acknowledgement," finally, of our mortality. Picard makes such great speeches about this, some of which are delivered quite movingly, thanks to Sir Patrick Stewart's always sterling performances. But Jean-Luc, the Man himself, is no different than most of Humanity: he's scared shitless of dying. Otherwise, he'd have greater control over his own response to it. He's done everything but buy himself a rug and dress like he's 20.

Thankfully, though, Shinzon seems to enter the picture at just the right time in Picard's Life. In his clone, Jean-Luc sees his (literally) stolen youth. He's harshly judgemental of Shinzon's driving self-interest and ambition, which are Hallmarks of Youth. And his days of chasing skirts are at an end. Picard has never been so comfortable in his fatherly role towards his crew as we see him in Nemesis. It's not a seamless transition, but Picard, it seems, finally accepts that he is ancient. Self-delusion ... "adieu!" No glory rides on the back of such. He is prepared to face The Final Frontier of The Human Condition ...

 

[Mojochi]

I don't want to speak against a personality change. I just feel that a change in actual behavior might not be all that visible here.

Sure, that's possible to a degree. He's talked about having been into rock climbing, & is shown horseback riding, & clearly seems to be the initiator of the sea captaining program from Generations. There's surely always been a more risky nature to the man, but there also does seem to be a definitive shift in how he manages his life, when once he was a man timid about even dating a woman aboard ship, because it might be inappropriate, & cautions Wesley about relationships. He obviously has feelings for Beverly, but won't act on them. There clearly been a reserved nature to the man that he seems to shed during those movie years

 

[Timo]

Is a shift in romance really noticeable, though? Anij is not fellow crew. And out of the four movies, she is Picard's only romantic interest. And definitely not a younger woman! Ultimately, too, the relationship comes to naught as far as we can tell, there being no indication of time to be spent together after the end credits roll.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mojochi]

Is a shift in romance really noticeable, though? Anij is not fellow crew. And out of the four movies, she is Picard's only romantic interest. And definitely not a younger woman! Ultimately, too, the relationship comes to naught as far as we can tell, there being no indication of time to be spent together after the end credits roll.

Timo Saloniemi

The romance aspect is only one example though, & even in the case of Vash he is very uncomfortable about letting that part of himself be known. The Dude is on a Risan vacation, reading reading books. In Rascals he spent free time poking around a cave, looking for 700 year old dishes lol

I'm just saying, that's a far cry from a dune buggy racer. It's not a huge alteration in who he is mind you, but it might be fair to say he's had a change of spirit

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Picard was not usually in situations in the show where there was a combat situation and Riker or Worf weren't in the room. In Starship Mine he didn't have any problem with fisticuffs.

I agree he was more focused on his own mortality in the films but I think the action focus was situational.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Tapestry was in S6, but it showed us (and Picard himself) a Picard who didn't take any risks.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I've been thinking about the last year of the series, wherein Wesley abandons Starfleet, in a rather headbutting fashion with Picard, Ro Laren straight up turns her back on Starfleet & Picard's mentorship. Sito Jaxa, who he'd personally brought aboard so she could get a fair shake after the academy debacle, dies on a mission he picks her for. In Bloodlines, he meets a man who could be his son, but he learns isn't, & then the finale events which show him a future where his friends all drift apart in one way or another. It really was something of a humbling year for him.

Then in the first TNG movie, which seems to take place very soon after the show ended, the rest of the Picard lineage is snuffed out, & he gets sucked up in a dream world wherein he's dreaming of a family he wouldn't otherwise have. It all makes me wonder. I hear a lot of complaints (Even added to them myself) about how TNG movie "Action" Picard seems unlike the more reserved & mindful Picard of the series, but could we consider this an evolution of sorts?

All these events leading up to his 1st poker game at the end of the show, & then losing his brother & nephew, could they have contributed to a emotional & psychological shift in the man? Maybe even meeting Jim Kirk played a part, & if we can assume something like this is happening, is it a healthy psyche change, or an unhealthy one?

I found it a little odd.
I was on the Army. I couldn't imagine any of my old commanders or NCO's changing for too many reasons.
Everyone signs up knowing full week that you could be killed or any on you know could be killed. I just didn't like the ending too much.

 

[Mojochi]

In Starship Mine he didn't have any problem with fisticuffs.

Actually, he was horrible in that fight lol.. He did more rolling around than fighting. Picard has never been much good at hand to hand

Loses heart in fight with Naussican
As Worf's Cha-Dlch, gets jumped by 2 Klingons, scores 1 nut shot & gets saved by an old woman
Loses fight against Kelsey in Starship Mine, even though he did rig the trilithium
Get's ass kicked by Tolian Soran. Needs Kirk & time travel to bail him out
Hell, even his brother Robert gets the better of him. lol

The only fight he seems to have done well at all was as Robin Hood in Q-Pid, & I'm not convinced Q created those guys to be terribly competent. I mean Beverly & Deanna knocked two helmeted guys out with big jugs. hahaha

 

[Devilpogostick]

Actually, he was horrible in that fight lol.. He did more rolling around than fighting. Picard has never been much good at hand to hand

Loses heart in fight with Naussican
As Worf's Cha-Dlch, gets jumped by 2 Klingons, scores 1 nut shot & gets saved by an old woman
Loses fight against Kelsey in Starship Mine, even though he did rig the trilithium
Get's ass kicked by Tolian Soran. Needs Kirk & time travel to bail him out
Hell, even his brother Robert gets the better of him. lol

The only fight he seems to have done well at all was as Robin Hood in Q-Pid, & I'm not convinced Q created those guys to be terribly competent. I mean Beverly & Deanna knocked two helmeted guys out with big jugs. hahaha

...It's pretty amazing when Picard post Generations suddenly became arguably the most dangerous captain in a heated fight.

From shooting up Borg to wiping out a ship crew of Remans with just a phaser rifle...And no security team to back him up.

...That's probably the one thing that really stands out the most how Picard in the films differ from the show in a visual sense.

 

[Nyotarules]

I blame the mind meld with Sarek, all that Vulcan passion started to show in the movies. Although from a female perspective action Picard is more appealing, at least the novels have he getting off his butt when it comes to Crusher.

 

[Mojochi]

...It's pretty amazing when Picard post Generations suddenly became arguably the most dangerous captain in a heated fight.

From shooting up Borg to wiping out a ship crew of Remans with just a phaser rifle...And no security team to back him up.

...That's probably the one thing that really stands out the most how Picard in the films differ from the show in a visual sense.

He's actually always been good in a fire fight & as a strategist he's pretty awesome. He just sucks fairly hard in unarmed combat lol

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Actually, he was horrible in that fight lol.. He did more rolling around than fighting. Picard has never been much good at hand to hand

Loses heart in fight with Naussican
As Worf's Cha-Dlch, gets jumped by 2 Klingons, scores 1 nut shot & gets saved by an old woman
Loses fight against Kelsey in Starship Mine, even though he did rig the trilithium
Get's ass kicked by Tolian Soran. Needs Kirk & time travel to bail him out
Hell, even his brother Robert gets the better of him. lol

The only fight he seems to have done well at all was as Robin Hood in Q-Pid, & I'm not convinced Q created those guys to be terribly competent. I mean Beverly & Deanna knocked two helmeted guys out with big jugs. hahaha

I think those need some qualifiers.

Getting jumped by two Klingons would be hard for anybody to handle beyond maybe Worf or Riker.

Soran was armed for at least some of that fight.

He obviously wasn't really trying to kick the s--t out of his brother, it was more of an emotional catharsis.

 

[Devilpogostick]

He's actually always been good in a fire fight & as a strategist he's pretty awesome. He just sucks fairly hard in unarmed combat lol

Well, point taken but the whole raiding the Scimitar by himself moment was...Pretty much a good amount of suspension of disbelief at play.

While granted there are a lot of things going on that would prevent Picard from getting help in time, he still steamrolled those Remans like a Call of Duty protagonist and even when unarmed killed Shinzon.

Even regarding Picard's shooting ability, this felt a tad excessive.

 

[Timo]

We might have to argue that Remans are feeble creatures with inherent problems on subjects like shooting straight or throwing a punch... Not a big hindrance to them being "shock troops" when the definition is synonymous with "cannon fodder".

Perhaps not all Remans, mind you. Perhaps Shinzon's rebels were all victims of the mines, on the verge of physical collapse, and only Shinzon himself was one of the privileged who got to go out and fight in the past war. And of course Shinzon himself would be half dead by the time he fights Picard.

Timo Saloniemi