The Expanse season 2

[Christopher]

To say nothing of the fact that this BBS is centred on a TV franchise that started with a show which was cancelled twice due to low ratings.

If you mean Star Trek: TOS specifically, that show was only cancelled once. Contrary to myth, the show was never formally cancelled in the second season and there's no evidence that it was even slated for cancellation; at most, the show's renewal was undecided.

Other than that, though, you're right that its ratings were never great. There's never been a correlation between whether a show gets good ratings and whether it's worth watching. People resist watching low-rated shows because they're afraid of getting invested in something that gets cancelled prematurely, but I think they're just cheating themselves of something good. If a show is worthwhile, then at least you get to enjoy it while it lasts. Many of my favorite shows over the years have run one season or less. That doesn't make them less worthwhile. I regret not getting more, but I'm grateful for what I got.

 

[Mr Awe]

When it's a highly serialized show, I think it's much tougher on the viewers when it's cancelled. You want to know what was going to happen next! At least for The Expanse, there are the books. If the show is cancelled, I'll read them. But, I sincerely hope that the show continues. I'm enjoying it very much!

Mr Awe

 

[Christopher]

When it's a highly serialized show, I think it's much tougher on the viewers when it's cancelled. You want to know what was going to happen next!

That's true -- it was less frustrating back in the day when TV was strictly episodic. But I think this is why many serialized shows have adopted the structure developed by shows like Babylon 5 and Buffy -- giving each season a self-contained arc with closure, so that there's a sense the series is reasonably complete even if it gets cancelled before its time. And networks have become less prone to cancel shows midseason and leave an arc unfinished, because they know audiences hate that (and because there's money to be made in a complete DVD season set down the road). At worst, a show may not get the back-9 pickup after its initial 13-episode (or sometimes shorter) order and have to settle for the 13th (or whatever) episode as its finale, and so a lot of shows design their seasons to come to a climax at the end of their initial order, so that there will be at least some sense of completion if it doesn't get a full-season pickup. (An interesting example of this was The WB's short-lived Tarzan series that transposed Tarzan to New York City with Jane as a detective. It was cancelled after 9 episodes, but the 9th episode nicely wrapped up all its plot threads, in a way that would've allowed more adventures going forward, but that also worked well as a finale for a limited series.)

 

[crookeddy]

Season 1 didn't do much better in the rating, but then half those episodes were released through streaming before they aired.

Regardless, we should only get invested in a show because it gets good ratings? You do realize one of the most popular cult TV shows today, Firefly is one that did poor ratings when it first aired on TV? To say nothing of the fact that this BBS is centred on a TV franchise that started with a show which was cancelled twice due to low ratings.

Besides, even if your doomsday prediction does pan out, there's six novels this show is based on which fans of the show who want to further explore the world can always check out. "Don't get too invested" is just a weird thing to say.

Super weird to bring up Firefly as that's a great example of what I was suggesting to avoid. Lots of people invested heavily into Firefly and when it was gone it caused a lot of emotional pain that could have been avoided.

 

[sojourner]

Better to have loved and lost than to never loved at all.

 

[crookeddy]

Better to have loved and lost than to never loved at all.

A lie best left ignored.

 

[The Wormhole]

Super weird to bring up Firefly as that's a great example of what I was suggesting to avoid. Lots of people invested heavily into Firefly and when it was gone it caused a lot of emotional pain that could have been avoided.

I got into Firefly after it was cancelled. I went into it knowing there were only those slightly over a dozen episodes. Hell, at the time, I believed that was it since this was before Serenity was announced. Still fell in love with the show, and I have no regrets about that. And while I'll agree the Browncoats can be an overzealous bunch, there is still nothing wrong becoming invested in a show one genuinely loves, regardless if it's popular or not.

Granted, I'm not sure I'd say I "love" The Expanse yet, I'm not going to jump ship just because of how many people out there are or aren't watching it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't watch TV shows as an investment. Its entertainment.

 

[Hyperspace05]

A lie best left ignored.

A lie? Well if you say so it must be true! No, I agree with that "lie". You stay in your safe corner if you want.

 

[Christopher]

Is this how the books handled the plan to dispose of Eros? Because it doesn't make much sense. Dropping something into the Sun isn't easy. An object orbiting the Sun is moving at a pretty fair velocity perpendicular to it -- 24.36 kilometers per second (54,500 MPH) in Eros's case. Cancelling all that velocity so that it falls out of orbit and into the Sun is not an easy task; it'd probably take continuous, sustained thrust in the direction opposite Eros's orbital motion, not a single big impact. (And the graphic on the Rocinante's screen seemed to show the Nauvoo coming in sideways, as if to knock it directly toward the Sun, which is so very much not how orbital mechanics works. That would just make its orbit more elliptical.) Plus, on the scale of planetary/asteroidal orbits, even the Sun is a pretty small target, and you'll miss if you don't get the course exactly right. It seems to me that it would've made more sense to strap the Nauvoo's engines onto Eros and use them to accelerate it out of the Solar System and send the protomolecule back out into interstellar space. Or, build some large parabolic solar mirrors, focus them on Eros, and melt the whole rock to slag.

I did like it how they spent the whole episode setting up all the standard, cliched beats leading predictably to Miller heroically sacrificing his life... and then pulled the rug out and had him not die after all. Kinda like what Joss Whedon did with Hawkeye in Age of Ultron.

 

[Mr Awe]

Even if their plan worked, I would think there would be a long time before Eros was actually near the sun! Years possibly. Perhaps part of their plan was that once they got it accelerating towards the sun, it would be hard for other ships to catch up? Not sure. It did not seem like the best plan, but perhaps it's a case that it was the best plan that could potentially incinerate all of the material? All other plans would seem to have more serious drawbacks.

I did enjoy the episode. Tragic about the other rescue mission, if that's what they truly were.

Mr Awe

 

[sojourner]

Even if their plan worked, I would think there would be a long time before Eros was actually near the sun! Years possibly. Perhaps part of their plan was that once they got it accelerating towards the sun, it would be hard for other ships to catch up? Not sure. It did not seem like the best plan, but perhaps it's a case that it was the best plan that could potentially incinerate all of the material? All other plans would seem to have more serious drawbacks.

That's why they were mounting bombs on Eros. To reduce the exterior to slag preventing anyone from getting in until it was consumed by the sun.

 

[Christopher]

Even if their plan worked, I would think there would be a long time before Eros was actually near the sun! Years possibly.

Indeed, but I didn't complain about that because they did implicitly acknowledge that. The reason Miller and the others were planting the bombs on the surface was to fuse the surface and seal off all access to the interior so that nobody could get inside while Eros was heading sunward, which implies that it was expected to take a substantial amount of time. Although that doesn't make much sense, because obviously the technology exists to carve through asteroidal rock, since that's how the inhabited interior of Eros was built in the first place.

 

[Mr Awe]

That's why they were mounting bombs on Eros. To reduce the exterior to slag preventing anyone from getting in until it was consumed by the sun.

I have doubts that would've kept out a determined party who had an extended amount of time available. Slowed them down, sure, but not keep them out for months. Particularly, if it was a party with significant resources. But, as I mentioned, it's entirely possible that all other plans had even more serious drawbacks.

 

[sojourner]

who had an extended amount of time available.

This being the key. The idea was that throwing it into the sun would limit the amount of time left for anyone to break in.

 

[Mr Awe]

This being the key. The idea was that throwing it into the sun would limit the amount of time left for anyone to break in.

The average distance from the sun to Eros is 135 million miles. It will take quite some time for Eros to reach the sun even if they can put it in the correct orbit to intersect with the sun. As Christopher notes, the technology to carve out an asteroid exists. In this case, they'd just have to dig through the fused exterior.

 

[Christopher]

In this case, they'd just have to dig through the fused exterior.

Although -- if the crust were entirely molten, that would make it too hot to carve through. Since (contrary to popular belief) vacuum is a superb insulator, a molten asteroid would take a long time to cool down and resolidify, especially if it were drawing closer to the Sun. So the idea might be that it would remain molten for however long it took to spiral down into the Sun.

 

[sojourner]

1. We never saw the projected time for it to fall into the sun based on their plan.
2. We don't know how fast the technology in the setting is at tunneling through rock.
3. I would guess the characters had some idea their plan would work.

 

[Mr Awe]

Although -- if the crust were entirely molten, that would make it too hot to carve through. Since (contrary to popular belief) vacuum is a superb insulator, a molten asteroid would take a long time to cool down and resolidify, especially if it were drawing closer to the Sun. So the idea might be that it would remain molten for however long it took to spiral down into the Sun.

1. We never saw the projected time for it to fall into the sun based on their plan.
2. We don't know how fast the technology in the setting is at tunneling through rock.
3. I would guess the characters had some idea their plan would work.

Both of your comments get to the capabilities of this future, fictional technology, which leaves some leeway about the feasibility of this plan. A couple of thoughts suggest it's not that feasible.

In terms of the bombs, we don't know their yield, but there are realistic constraints as to how powerful they could be. They really can't be more powerful than nuclear bombs of that size. Nukes don't create gobs of lava, so I don't think these would either. If there were magma, thermal radiation (rather than conduction or convection) would be the primary means for it to cool down via the vacuum. I don't know how long that would take but it would depend on the amount of magma. I don't think there'd be much and probably the molten material would be blown away by the force of the explosion anyway. (Although, after I think about it, vacuum isn't a good heat conductor, but the extremely cold interior of Eros probably is. It might cool down any magma fairly quickly. )

In terms of imparting a significant delta vee in Eros towards the sun, it's hard to say again with the fictional technology. However, it's hard to imagine imparting a large amount of velocity to such a massive object (~14,800,000,000,000,000 pounds) using any sort of reality based technology. They can redirect a little but probably not accelerate it much. Eros orbits at about 54,000 miles/hour, so it'll take a long time to go the 135 million miles. Of course, it would gain speed as it fell towards the sun. However, I have a hard time picturing them moving Eros perpendicular to its own orbit to go directly into the sun.

At any rate, for the sake of the story, I'm willing to buy the fact that Fred Johnson's geeks crunched the numbers and found that it would work--if Eros hadn't sidestepped the ship!

 

[The Wormhole]

Is this how the books handled the plan to dispose of Eros?

Yep. Though, I got to say, Johnson's people were a lot friendlier acquiring the Nauvoo in the show than they were in the novel. As opposed to tricking them off with a radiation alarm like we see in the show, in the novel Johnson orders a raid and mass arrest of everyone on the ship.