The New USS Discovery....

[Timo]

It's pretty amusing that Trek has never had the guts to reimagine itself in that respect. TNG retained the Constitution exactly as is. DS9 reproduced the Constitution in perfect detail. ENT did the same. Even ST:ID came close to showing a perfect Constitution reproduction, although the scene was ultimately cut.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mudd]

Paramount changed it in 2009 and got away with it, so I suspect CBS will change it again.

Yep.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Paramount changed it in 2009 and got away with it, so I suspect CBS will change it again.

If for no other reason, merchandising. Posters and models of a brand new USS Enterprise will likely sell better than the 5,000th re-release of TOS ones.

Yep.

Nope. Quite the opposite. We've had two different Enterprises in Star Trek Beyond. Nine months have passed, how many models and toys have they made from them? Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

What's Eaglemoss new model? Another TOS Enterprise in 11" size this time. And then another TNG Enterprise-D in 8.5". Not a single STB ship in sight so far.

 

[Mudd]

Nine months have passed, how many models and toys have they made from them?

Who cares? The operative point is that Paramount has continued to redesign the ship, over and over. "Oh god, can we sell the toys?" has not figured heavily into that. Fans can keep telling each other that studio decisions are driven primarily by concerns over licensing money...but Trek still just threw out five decades of Klingons.

 

[King Bob!]

Who cares? The operative point is that Paramount has continued to redesign the ship, over and over. "Oh god, can we sell the toys?" has not figured heavily into that. Fans can keep telling each other that studio decisions are driven primarily by concerns over licensing money...but Trek still just threw out five decades of Klingons.

Merchandising does figure into it. There is a very small, but very loyal core of enthusiasts that buy TOS merchandise (I just bought a coloring book the other day ), but we aren't going to be around forever. If Paramount/CBS doesn't figure out how to hook a younger crowd, it means the franchise eventually dies. I like Star Trek, and would hate to see that happen because they continue to court a dwindling fan base.

 

[Mudd]

Yeah, Trek's merchandising consists and has consisted for decades mainly of selling overpriced "collectable" toys to older folks with disposable incomes burning holes in their pockets. They can't even move blu-rays of the old shows in sufficient quantity to justify remastering most of them. Trek is niche.

CBS has covered their costs and is looking for subscription fees.

 

[JedGelt67]

You mean Pinewood Toronto Studios, I assume?

No, London. And it's sailing on the original 18th century enterprise ship that was used in Generations!

 

[JedGelt67]

Yeah, Trek's merchandising consists and has consisted for decades mainly of selling overpriced "collectable" toys to older folks with disposable incomes burning holes in their pockets. They can't even move blu-rays of the old shows in sufficient quantity to justify remastering most of them. Trek is niche.

CBS has covered their costs and is looking for subscription fees.

I'd actually like to see some decent STB toys i can give to my kids.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

So first it was "CBS will change the Constitution-class again" because "they need to sell new merchandise"…

Paramount changed it in 2009 and got away with it, so I suspect CBS will change it again.

If for no other reason, merchandising. Posters and models of a brand new USS Enterprise will likely sell better than the 5,000th re-release of TOS ones.

Yep.

…and then it's "who cares about merchandise, they don't change it to sell"???

Who cares? The operative point is that Paramount has continued to redesign the ship, over and over. "Oh god, can we sell the toys?" has not figured heavily into that. Fans can keep telling each other that studio decisions are driven primarily by concerns over licensing money...

I'll tell you who cares about merchandise. CBS, Paramount and their licensing partners who apparently still sell TOS and TNG merchandise in their 5,000th re-releases than all the other stuff combined.

 

[gerbil]

I'd actually like to see some decent STB toys i can give to my kids.

I say this every time it comes up but this really essential and the difference between Disney and Paramount/CBS. Disney gets that there are multiple age groups to appeal to so they want to do interim movies like "Rogue One."

Disney also gets that Star Wars is a generational phenomenon and that parents want to share it with their kids. They also know how to merchandize to that end.

But look at the new Power Rangers movie! There are bays devoted to it at all the major retailers right now and it doesn't even come out til next month. That makes kids think it looks cool and reassures us parents that it's not as goofy as we might be afraid it is.

Paramount doesn't get that. And yeah, I know, 2009 toys didn't see wonderfully. Well, review what went wrong and fix it. Namely, three sizes of figures. One of which you needed to collect all of to complete a play set. A hero ship (which sold pretty well!) with no enemy ship to pit it against.

Beyond was full of opportunities to correct these mistakes and no one jumped on them.

 

[Ithekro]

The simple thing is that the old 1960s Constitution still looks good on screen. The CG model makers have done it over a hundred times to make it gorgeous in 4K. Since it would likely only be a cameo in Discovery, if at all, it be cheaper to just use the original style ship than to make up a new ship that is called a Constitution. It is not like you are going to try to sell it as the hero ship, or the important ship to the plotline, nor the major aliens that will need to have major screen time and look alien. This is the iconic ship that needs only a passing nod in the background to show a connection to the shows history, which also has been a selling point of the show as part of the "Prime Timeline". It would also be useful as a reminder that this is not the Kevin Timeline is an original Constitution is in the background instead of the 2009 era Constitutions. It gives the audience a sense of the setting without having to say much of anything else about it.

It would be the "oh look, I know when this is" type moment. Like seeing vintage cars lining the streets in a period piece movie. It gives you a sense of when this is without having to say when it is.

 

[Kemaiku]

I have a toy of the Franklin

 

[Mudd]

I'll tell you who cares about merchandise. CBS, Paramount ...

Who keep greenlighting new versions of Trek that throw out all the old designs.

They don't appear to be troubled by those radical changes which trouble fans.

 

[KennyB]

Who keep greenlighting new versions of Trek that throw out all the old designs.

They don't appear to be troubled by those radical changes which trouble fans.

Some fans.........

 

[Mudd]

True. Some.

 

[Ithekro]

As said, if they are trying to set this show up for a particular time period within the Prime Timeline, the easiest way to show that while being able to change literally everything else in the show, is to put an old style Constitution in the background of one scene.

If they later go for the anthology approach to these CBS All Access series, they could set one in the 2360s and put a Galaxy-class in the background to give people the hint of when things are happening. The show then become known to do period pieces set in Star Trek. Put another show set in the Romulan Wars and show an NX-class ship in with the combat fleet, and you have a period piece that makes it easy for the audience to clue in on when in Star Trek this is.

 

[a thousand-yard stare]

Put another show set in the Romulan Wars and show an NX-class ship in with the combat fleet

That show I would really want to see...

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Who keep greenlighting new versions of Trek that throw out all the old designs.

What the heck are you talking about?

First of all, "keep greenlighting" my @$$. CBS didn't have a new Trek TV series for 12 years. Twelve. Years.

And secondly, all the previous TV shows (TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) showed us exactly the same Constitution-class model. It was never thrown out!

 

[Kemaiku]

The Connie model for Trials and Tribble-ations was only about 5 feet rather than the 11 feet of the original. They deliberately changed several aspects of the design. The CGI not only changed it further, it decided to depict entirely new things about the ship to change it when needed.

The hanger bay has different dimensions and now the Enterprise has a hanger full of tiny satellites ready to go from a ventral drop bay it never had in any schematic from the 60's and 70's, because it was easier for the episode.

The two side lights became the Ion pods etc

 

[Ithekro]

Yet visually it looks basically the same from 1966 to 2005. The details may change, but the appearance is close enough to say "that's the same ship", quite easily. Shape, color, and style. None of the changes were near as radical as those in 1979 or 2009. Therefore the TOS appearance is very well known, and would make it easy to tell when something is happening in the timeline just by being in the background.