How did you picture the prequel era/story before the prequels?

[fireproof78]

Yeah . . . just as he has to take the flak for the poor ideas, poor execution and other mistakes in the Original Trilogy. Or Abrams has to take the flak for his mistakes and poor decisions in "The Force Awakens". Gareth Edwards has to do the same for "Rogue One". What's your point?

That the mistakes in the PT stand out to myself, and others, more than in the OT or RO or TFA. All films have problems, but some are more apparent than others or more bothersome to people than others.

The PT is a bit unique in that Lucas really had sole control of the final product, versus the OT, with others having influence as well, including other directors. So, there are several factors that influence opinions on the PT, not just blind hatred.

 

[Set Harth]

With Jar-Jar Binks, anal themes are a constant companion ...

Well dat smells stinkowiff!

 

[2takesfrakes]

Oh brother.

A CGI Space Camel shuddering, as it aimed its dirty asshole at someone would've surely evoked any response other than what Jar-Jar Binks' reaction was: a look of curiosity, followed by deep inhalation (!!!), olfactory analysis ... and finally, judged the scent offensive. Then, Life goes on, such as it does, in this movie. LJones41, surely, you don't mean to imply that Jar-Jar's motives and behaviours in this instance are a mark of brilliance on George Lucas' part? Can you just imagine what Han Solo might've done, had a CGI Space Camel tried to part Han's hair in such a fashion? Clearly, even the movie, itself, treats Jar-Jar as a non-entity. A special effect - with the emphasis on "special," as in short school bus special ...

 

[JD]

I'd actually go so far to say that the real problem with the romance plot isn't Anakin but Padme. With Anakin we see something of his upbringing, first as a slave then as a cloistered warrior monk so we can understand why he's weird and awkward around a girl he's pretty much idolised from the moment he laid eyes on here.

With Padme on the other hand we have very little to go on in regards to what drives and motivates her so we're given very little context as to why she might fall for an obnoxious teen several years her junior. This isn't a problem in TPM since Anakin is a child so the mutual affection is both innocent and compassionate. The trouble really arises in AotC where Padme's character really isn't developed any further. This is compounded in RotS where she's less of a character and more of an abstraction.

Over the years I've gradually come to the conclusion that while intelligent and mature in her temperament and outlook, Padme is secretly hampered by an astonishing emotional naivete. It makes a certain sense when one considers she's just as much of a child prodigy as Anakin. Presumably spending most of her early childhood in educational institutions, before moving onto politics and altruism. That doesn't leave an awful lot of time for personal relationships. All of her "friends" are fellow functionaries, mentors and her personal retinue of bodyguards. All the hallmarks of a sheltered upbringing.

It's been a while since I read it, but I think the AotC novel says almost exactly this. That she had spent pretty much her whole life either in school or involved in politics, and had only had one brief barely even a relationship with one of her fellow students.

 

[fireproof78]

It's been a while since I read it, but I think the AotC novel says almost exactly this. That she had spent pretty much her whole life either in school or involved in politics, and had only had one brief barely even a relationship with one of her fellow students.

I think it was mentioned in the ROTS novel as well. It certainly is an interesting idea, the bones of a great idea, but the flesh isn't quite there. I actually like some facets of Anakin and Padme's romance, because there is this kind of older style, like a lord and lady from Middle Age times, that GL was going for. So, it comes across a bit stand offish, but, as others have noted, it isn't always the easiest thing to identify with.

I think that a lot of Padme's story could have stood to be expanded more in the films.

 

[Set Harth]

It's been a while since I read it, but I think the AotC novel says almost exactly this. That she had spent pretty much her whole life either in school or involved in politics, and had only had one brief barely even a relationship with one of her fellow students.

Would that be "Palo"?

 

[LJones41]

That the mistakes in the PT stand out to myself, and others, more than in the OT or RO or TFA. All films have problems, but some are more apparent than others or more bothersome to people than others.

The PT is a bit unique in that Lucas really had sole control of the final product, versus the OT, with others having influence as well, including other directors. So, there are several factors that influence opinions on the PT, not just blind hatred.

Perhaps for you and certain fans. For fans like myself, there are many flaws in all of the STAR WARS films. And for us, "The Force Awakens" seemed to have the most flaws.

Although I do find it interesting that many in the STAR WARS fandom seemed to think there are not many fans of the PT . . . without really making an effort to find out.

 

[tommulligan]

Can you just imagine what Han Solo might've done, had a CGI Space Camel tried to part Han's hair in such a fashion? ...

Obviously he'd let the camel shoot first

 

[2takesfrakes]

... That was so wrong!

And ILM never did get Han's rubber necking to look right, either.

 

[JD]

Would that be "Palo"?

The name does sound familiar.

Perhaps for you and certain fans. For fans like myself, there are many flaws in all of the STAR WARS films. And for us, "The Force Awakens" seemed to have the most flaws.

Although I do find it interesting that many in the STAR WARS fandom seemed to think there are not many fans of the PT . . . without really making an effort to find out.

Wow, I don't know how anyone could possibly say TFA is more flawed than the PT, and I'm saying this as a fan of the PT. Even if you have problems with the borrowed elements of ANH, I would hope that you can at least recognize that it is better written, performed and directed than any of the three PT movies.
I find a lot of things to enjoy in the prequels, but I do recognize that there are a lot of problems with all three movies. I enjoy the overall story and ideas, and the visuals enough that I can deal with the bad dialogue and performances.

 

[Set Harth]

The name does sound familiar.

She mentioned him in the film.

 

[Ithekro]

Briefly. Her other romantic attachment was Rush Clovis during Padme's first year as a senator. She's called that off fairly quickly, but used it to the Republic's advantage a few times in the Clone Wars....despite Anakin's bet efforts and raging jealously. I think he chose to fall to his death, partly to avoid being put on trail by the Republic, but also from having to face Skywalker's rage again.

 

[fireproof78]

Perhaps for you and certain fans. For fans like myself, there are many flaws in all of the STAR WARS films. And for us, "The Force Awakens" seemed to have the most flaws.

Although I do find it interesting that many in the STAR WARS fandom seemed to think there are not many fans of the PT . . . without really making an effort to find out.

Seeing as how I have been apart of fan groups and boards for many years, and grew up with the PT, I am fully aware of diversity in fan opinion. I would not state my opinion as the only one anymore than anyone else's. You're welcome to it, and I certainly wish I could enjoy the PT more.

However, for myself (I'll speak for no other fans here) TFA, for all its missteps, was fun and enjoyable, with memorable characters that were relatable, understandable and dynamic. That won't be everyone's reaction, and that's fine. But, for me, characters, characters, characters are what drive a film.

The name does sound familiar.

Wow, I don't know how anyone could possibly say TFA is more flawed than the PT, and I'm saying this as a fan of the PT. Even if you have problems with the borrowed elements of ANH, I would hope that you can at least recognize that it is better written, performed and directed than any of the three PT movies.
I find a lot of things to enjoy in the prequels, but I do recognize that there are a lot of problems with all three movies. I enjoy the overall story and ideas, and the visuals enough that I can deal with the bad dialogue and performances.

There are a lot of things that I like about the PT, so I can understand your enjoyment of the PT. The visuals are stunning, it showed several other stories that hadn't been told in the SW universe before, and took some serious risks that hadn't been done before. And, for that, I am grateful. I just can only enjoy the PT so much before the flaws glare out.

As for TFA-I heartily agree.

 

[suarezguy]

It was a pretty weird creative decision to give Anakin and Obi-Wan pretty little screentime together in the first two prequels, and for their time and relationship to be pretty antagonistic in the second, that's questionable in itself and more bothersome in terms of being a prequel when Obi-Wan repeatedly claimed they were really close friends in the original films. The relationship gets a lot better and closer to that in RotS but it still feels more like Obi-Wan was just lying to Luke in the originals.

 

[LJones41]

Wow, I don't know how anyone could possibly say TFA is more flawed than the PT, and I'm saying this as a fan of the PT. Even if you have problems with the borrowed elements of ANH, I would hope that you can at least recognize that it is better written, performed and directed than any of the three PT movies.

Excuse me? Since WHEN do I have to "recognize" that "The Force Awakens" is superior to the PT? Who in the hell are you to dictate my opinions?

As a fan of both the OT and PT, I do NOT regard "The Force Awakens" as superior to the PT. If you don't agree with me, fine. But do not try to coerce me into agreeing with your opinion.

 

[Reverend]

It was a pretty weird creative decision to give Anakin and Obi-Wan pretty little screentime together in the first two prequels, and for their time and relationship to be pretty antagonistic in the second, that's questionable in itself and more bothersome in terms of being a prequel when Obi-Wan repeatedly claimed they were really close friends in the original films. The relationship gets a lot better and closer to that in RotS but it still feels more like Obi-Wan was just lying to Luke in the originals.

I'm not sure it was a conscious decision so much as a necessary result of the structure of the trilogy.
In the first movie it was important to establish the Master/Padawan dynamic without directly involving Anakin so they focused on the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon relationship. In AotC they needed to get the romance plot moving, so that means having Anakin & Obi-Wan separated.

It's easy to miss the implications, but if one pays attention it seems as though Anakin's defiant acting out is not typical of his usual behaviour. Look at how they interact in the lift on the way up to Padme's apartment; they're quite friendly, brotherly even, just as old Ben described. It's only when he gets near Padme that he feels the need to show off and rebel to show up his master. It's also worth remembering that this initial scene before the doors open it meant to be indicative of the last decade the audience missed out on, just as the opening sequence of RotS is meant to show how their relationship has evolved in three years of warfare before splitting them up again.

Remember, these films aren't about Anakin's relationship to Obi-Wan, they're about his fall from grace. How he relates to Obi-Wan is certainly an element in that, but it's not the crux of it.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not sure it was a conscious decision so much as a necessary result of the structure of the trilogy.
In the first movie it was important to establish the Master/Padawan dynamic without directly involving Anakin so they focused on the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon relationship. In AotC they needed to get the romance plot moving, so that means having Anakin & Obi-Wan separated.

Which, I think was to the PT's trilogy detriment, as seeing more of Obi-Wan and Anakin was an aspect that I really wanted developed.

I get that the structure of the PT went through some iterations, I just think that the Anakin/Obi-Wan relationship could have used a little bit more focus.

It's easy to miss the implications, but if one pays attention it seems as though Anakin's defiant acting out is not typical of his usual behaviour. Look at how they interact in the lift on the way up to Padme's apartment; they're quite friendly, brotherly even, just as old Ben described. It's only when he gets near Padme that he feels the need to show off and rebel to show up his master. It's also worth remembering that this initial scene before the doors open it meant to be indicative of the last decade the audience missed out on, just as the opening sequence of RotS is meant to show how their relationship has evolved in three years of warfare before splitting them up again.

I always found the lift interaction a bit disrespectful on the part of Anakin to, if dialed back compared to the Padme apartment scene.

Remember, these films aren't about Anakin's relationship to Obi-Wan, they're about his fall from grace. How he relates to Obi-Wan is certainly an element in that, but it's not the crux of it.

I just think it would have been more interesting and dynamic to see Anakin's fall from grace as perceived by Obi-Wan, just like we get to know Vader as Luke's father through Luke.

 

[Tosk]

Excuse me? Since WHEN do I have to "recognize" that "The Force Awakens" is superior to the PT? Who in the hell are you to dictate my opinions?

JD didn't dictate anything. He said that he hoped you would recognize it. You don't, so he'll be disappointed. Oh well, big deal.

 

[LJones41]

JD didn't dictate anything. He said that he hoped you would recognize it. You don't, so he'll be disappointed. Oh well, big deal.

Why on earth is it important to some people that I would "recognize" that "The Force Awakens" is "superior" to the PT? If I feel that "The Force Awakens" is inferior to the PT, then that is how I feel. Is it really important that everyone harbor the same opinion?

 

[Tosk]

Why on earth is it important to some people that I would "recognize" that "The Force Awakens" is "superior" to the PT? If I feel that "The Force Awakens" is inferior to the PT, then that is how I feel. Is it really important that everyone harbor the same opinion?

I have no idea. I personally don't care which you prefer.