Star Trek VI - Kirk v Kirk

[Spocklight]

Question for all of you:

During the Kirk/Martia fight where Martia is disguised as Kirk, is it the real Kirk who says "I can't believe I kissed you" and what is meant by the reply "Must have been a lifelong ambition". I kind of tak it as a potential 4th wall nod of Shatner/Kirk loving himself so kissing himself would be a lifelong ambition lol? Or did Kirk simply want to get it on with a shapeshifter? Answers on a postcard please.

 

[mos6507]

Shatner's public image of being an egotistical jerk came AFTER Star Trek VI, when some of the tell-all books started coming out, like George's which came out in 1995. So that line is not a jab at Shatner, IMHO.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Was a playful jab at Shatner/Kirks ego ..being so in love with himself lol

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Was a playful jab at Shatner/Kirks ego ..being so in love with himself lol

Yes, this. The fight was also an homage to the Evil Captain Kirk trope from the series. STVI is full of such nods (e.g. McCoy trying to do surgery on an alien, Chang is a visual callback to TOS Klingons -- hardly any forehead bumps, fu-manchu mustache, etc...).

 

[Spocklight]

Thanks guys, a nice range of opinion there. @mos6507 what other trek tell all books would you recommend for goss goss goss lol?

 

[Timby]

Shatner's public image of being an egotistical jerk came AFTER Star Trek VI, when some of the tell-all books started coming out, like George's which came out in 1995. So that line is not a jab at Shatner, IMHO.

Uh, what?

Shatner's reputation didn't exactly come out of nowhere post-1991. He and Nimoy fought like cats and dogs on the set of the original series, for heaven's sake.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Chang is a visual callback to TOS Klingons -- hardly any forehead bumps, fu-manchu mustache, etc...

Actually, the real reason Chang looks so "human" is because that's how Christopher Plummer wanted it.

 

[mos6507]

Uh, what?
Shatner's reputation didn't exactly come out of nowhere post-1991. He and Nimoy fought like cats and dogs on the set of the original series, for heaven's sake.

Just what I said. The general public knew nothing of this. BTW, it's probably no coincidence that the tell-all books all came out AFTER the actors were done with Trek movies. They obviously didn't want to burn their bridges.

The only hint that Shatner was an ass was the Get a Life skit.

 

[Spocklight]

I must admit, having read Shatner's 'Captain's Log', I wouldn't be surprised if Nimoy couldn't stand the sight of him after all of Shatner's "practical jokes" that I get the impression only he found funny lol

 

[Khan 2.0]

I must admit, having read Shatner's 'Captain's Log', I wouldn't be surprised if Nimoy couldn't stand the sight of him after all of Shatner's "practical jokes" that I get the impression only he found funny lol

its possible this was the case as well documented (by Shatner himself) Nimoy hadn't seen or spoken to him for a good while before his death

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Shatner's public image of being an egotistical jerk came AFTER Star Trek VI, when some of the tell-all books started coming out, like George's which came out in 1995. So that line is not a jab at Shatner, IMHO.

Uh, what?

Shatner's reputation didn't exactly come out of nowhere post-1991. He and Nimoy fought like cats and dogs on the set of the original series, for heaven's sake.

Just what I said. The general public knew nothing of this. BTW, it's probably no coincidence that the tell-all books all came out AFTER the actors were done with Trek movies. They obviously didn't want to burn their bridges.

The only hint that Shatner was an ass was the Get a Life skit.

There was LOTS of stuff out there about Shatner's behavior and the dislike of his costars before 1991. I know, because I was a fan then and I saw it. The first thing that comes to mind was a sidebar in one of Cinefantastique's Trek issues talking about the TOS cast's issues with Shatner. He supposedly referred to the supporting cast as "the seven dwarves." George Takei also alluded to the cast having "apprehensions" when Shatner was named to direct STV in a Starlog interview in 1989.

I'd say the volume and frequency of the Shatner-bashing increased after '91, but it was certainly there beforehand.

Hell, even that infamous Shatner "sabotage" recording had been circulating for ages before '91.

 

[Khan 2.0]

The first thing that comes to mind was a sidebar in one of Cinefantastique's Trek issues talking about the TOS cast's issues with Shatner. He supposedly referred to the supporting cast as "the seven dwarves."

Yes that was the first id ever read about it, remember being quite shocked the cast didn't get on with Shatner especially Doohan. pretty sure it was the 25th anniversary issue with the Roddenberry cover or maybe the Trek VI issue. think there was similar stuff in the Altman/Gross books around the same time (Making of the Trek Films, Charting the Undiscovered Country: The Making of Trek VI) as the CFQ articles were usually written by them

 

[OtherGene]

Kirk loved himself, that was the reference.

And why wouldn't he?

 

[RColtrane]

Nimoy hadn't seen or spoken to him for a good while before his death

And neither after his death! *BA DUM TSSS*

 

[wayoung]

I must admit, having read Shatner's 'Captain's Log', I wouldn't be surprised if Nimoy couldn't stand the sight of him after all of Shatner's "practical jokes" that I get the impression only he found funny lol

its possible this was the case as well documented (by Shatner himself) Nimoy hadn't seen or spoken to him for a good while before his death

My understanding is that they kinda hated each other during the series, became good friends during the TOS films, and then had a final falling out in the 2000's for a combination of reasons, like Shatners comedy roast which Nimoy hated. The final straw being Shatner having Nimoy secretly filmed for The Captains after Nimoy told him he didn't want to be in the documentary.

 

[Spocklight]

Why did Nimoy hate Shatner's comedy roast and why would he hold it against Shatner seeing as he was the one being roasted?
I'm literally about to watch 'The Captains', he secretly filmed Nimoy for it?

Thanks for all this, fascinating stuff.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Why did Nimoy hate Shatner's comedy roast and why would he hold it against Shatner seeing as he was the one being roasted?
I'm literally about to watch 'The Captains', he secretly filmed Nimoy for it?

Thanks for all this, fascinating stuff.

Don't think nimoy ever had a problem with the Comedy Roast as he was in the opening skit of Shatner phoning Nimoy to ask if he should do it

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

George Takei also alluded to the cast having "apprehensions" when Shatner was named to direct STV in a Starlog interview in 1989.

But when the time came to actually make the film, they all praised Shatner for his professionalism as a director; they said there was none of the baggage that came with being his costar. When Shat was directing - and thus was unquestionably in charge - everything went much smoother.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But when the time came to actually make the film, they all praised Shatner for his professionalism as a director; they said there was none of the baggage that came with being his costar. When Shat was directing - and thus was unquestionably in charge - everything went much smoother.

Right. I didn't mention that because it wasn't directly relevant to the question of when the TOS cast's dirty laundry started to be aired, but thank you for putting Takei's statements into further context.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I do have a tendency to bring this up at the slightest provocation but I enjoy doing so, as I think it's important to give Shat a bit of humanity and not portray him as absolute evil like we always keep hearing about.