Monster Maroons

[Shamrock Holmes]

I'm a big fan of the concept of the Monster Maroons, although I think at like they should have left off the jacket in 'everyday use' (ala The Cage unis).

However, there is one thing that seems a little odd relative to (equivalent) modern usage:
- with the Monster Maroons, all enlisted wear the same colors except for trims, whereas officers wear different colored shirts and trims.
- logically, given that enlisted are specialists (and therefore should be more indentifiable as to role), whereas officers are most generalists - apart from staff officers - (and therefore have less need to be indentifiable as to role). So logically, crewmen, petty officers and (some) chiefs should wear the coloured shirts (IMO crimson, yellow, olive green, cyan and lilac but YMMV) and officers should all wear the same colour (except for possibly McCoy as he's a staff officer).

Any thoughts?

 

[J.T.B.]

The various "division" colors in Star Trek have always reflected more about what part of the ship or department one works in than an individual's specialty or qualifications.

I know it was to get some more use out of TMP jumpsuits, but putting enlisted personnel in completely different uniforms was a terrible idea, IMO.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The various "division" colors in Star Trek have always reflected more about what part of the ship or department one works in than an individual's specialty or qualifications.

I know it was to get some more use out of TMP jumpsuits, but putting enlisted personnel in completely different uniforms was a terrible idea, IMO.

I don't think it's a horrible idea in theory, my problem with the MM jumpsuits is that the bright red/tan combination is frankly bizarre visually (blue & gray or black & grey would have been better) and if they'd used the slightly looser fitted two-pieces rather than the jumpsuit then it would work as an all-environments 'base layer' (similar to the current ACU/CUU/NWU/ABU in US service) which senior officers (ie. the main characters) are unlikely to wear, but enlisted or junior officers (potentially uncluding Savvik, Valeris and Demora at various points) are.

 

[J.T.B.]

^ The idea that Starfleet went for many years with enlisted and officers dressing alike, suddenly saw a need to change to drastically different uniforms and then changed back again just stretches credulity.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

^ The idea that Starfleet went for many years with enlisted and officers dressing alike, suddenly saw a need to change to drastically different uniforms and then changed back again just stretches credulity.

Okay, that's a fair point.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

^ The idea that Starfleet went for many years with enlisted and officers dressing alike, suddenly saw a need to change to drastically different uniforms and then changed back again just stretches credulity.

I don't see why. It's hardly the first or the last radical uniform switch we've seen in the ST universe.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I like the idea that's been floated around here and there that these uniforms were an attempt to give Starfleet personnel a more "professional" appearance to the public (and the Galaxy at large) after years of wearing pajamas (and casual shirts & minidresses before that).

 

[J.T.B.]

I don't see why. It's hardly the first or the last radical uniform switch we've seen in the ST universe.

But I'm talking about something different. In the other switches the whole force was changed alike, top to bottom. Only in the WOK instance was the service itself divided into completely different types of uniform.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But I'm talking about something different. In the other switches the whole force was changed alike, top to bottom. Only in the WOK instance was the service itself divided into completely different types of uniform.

TMP had lots of different classes of uniforms, even more than we saw in TWOK.

Just accept the enlisted uniforms in TWOK as what they were: a way to save some money by recycling & altering some of the TMP jumpsuits.

 

[FormerLurker]

Especially when most casual observers never recognized them as anything other than different uniforms from the previous film.

 

[J.T.B.]

TMP had lots of different classes of uniforms, even more than we saw in TWOK.

But that's not comparable, because officers and enlisted were shown wearing the same types of uniforms. Bob Fletcher came up with a system of enlisted rank pins for TWOK, but they were never used on a jacket-and-turtleneck maroon uniform.

Just accept the enlisted uniforms in TWOK as what they were: a way to save some money by recycling & altering some of the TMP jumpsuits.

Right, my objections are on the concept, not production practicality.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't have my copy of The Making of Star Trek handy right now, but, IIRC, I believe there's a passage in there about all personnel serving aboard the Enterprise being officers. The Star Trek Writers/Directors Guide, third edition, says that there is no distinction between "officers" and "enlisted men" (page 27). As has been noted, the distinction in TWOK between officers and enlisted is a departure from earlier Trek.

 

[J.T.B.]

^Yeah, Roddenberry wrote that in TMoST, but who knows why since it had already been contradicted in TOS by the use of non-officer titles a couple of times ("yeoman third class" in "Charlie X," "technician first class" in "Space Seed").

 

[Hey Missy]

What was the deal with the whole turtleneck getup, anyway? Were they not turning the heat on?

 

[Tenacity]

They turned the heat down to make the Andorians comfortable;e, but that meant everyone else had to bundle up.

 

[urbandefault]

The US military changes the uniforms all the time. It's not that big a deal.

 

[Tenacity]

^ And there have been time where military member had a lot of choices as to which of their many different uniforms to wear, and in which combinations.

Pike's crew might have been wearing that particular uniform owing to a decision by Pike, uniform of the day.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ And there have been time where military member had a lot of choices as to which of their many different uniforms to wear, and in which combinations.

Pike's crew might have been wearing that particular uniform owing to a decision by Pike, uniform of the day.

We do see one uniform variation in Pike's Orion fantasy.

 

[drt]

^Yeah, Roddenberry wrote that in TMoST, but who knows why since it had already been contradicted in TOS by the use of non-officer titles a couple of times ("yeoman third class" in "Charlie X," "technician first class" in "Space Seed").

I suppose an argument could be made that those refer to position and not rank.
The problem with enlisted ranks in Starfleet is that they're not present on board ship in appreciable numbers (except for ST2 and ST6, I guess), I think the only way it makes any sense is that starships are crewed almost exclusively by officers (unless perhaps an exceptionally promising enlisted individual), and that enlisted are used primarily at Starbases, which probably makes sense, as Starfleet should need way more manpower for the grunt like jobs planet side and they can utilize locals from nearby star systems to man those more effectively.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I suppose an argument could be made that those refer to position and not rank.
The problem with enlisted ranks in Starfleet is that they're not present on board ship in appreciable numbers (except for ST2 and ST6, I guess), I think the only way it makes any sense is that starships are crewed almost exclusively by officers (unless perhaps an exceptionally promising enlisted individual), and that enlisted are used primarily at Starbases, which probably makes sense, as Starfleet should need way more manpower for the grunt like jobs planet side and they can utilize locals from nearby star systems to man those more effectively.

Also, the Writers Guide says that there is no distinction between enlisted men and officers, which could be taken to mean that all ranks and positions, whether formerly both those that past referred to enlisted men (like yeoman) and those that referred to officers (like captain), in Starfleet are now on the same scale that makes no distinction. That would still make it retrograde for TWOK to introduce a distinction.