I wonder........Freiberger was quoted as saying that when he signed on, GR had already assigned certain writers to develop specific stories. Did Freiberger choose those scripts in your post or were they GR's selections?
Why TOS started so good?
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I wonder........Freiberger was quoted as saying that when he signed on, GR had already assigned certain writers to develop specific stories. Did Freiberger choose those scripts in your post or were they GR's selections?
I agree with you Vger23 that Kirk gets captured and screws a girl every week may be an over-simplification, but even as an unbiased uninformed child who knew nothing about 1st 2nd or 3rd seasons, I could tell the difference right away when an episode came on.
Generally speaking, Spock seemed completely bored, flat and mono toned. McCoy appeared to be mostly grumpy all of the time (less "fun McCoy" like in Shore Leave or thoughtful/wise McCoy in Balance of Terror) I also noticed this in the Abrams films. Urban (a good actor) was forced (through no fault of his own) to be mostly the "Dammit Jim" grumpy McCoy. For me, the McCoy character always had so many more layers than that. I suspect Urban thinks so too, but as the old saying goes "if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage"
Kirk just lost his edge for me. In Season 1 he had a look in his eyes (that Shatner himself talked about in an interview) I can't remember what the Shat called the look but we'll call it the Eye of the Tiger for the sake of argument.
You saw that look a lot in Season one. You truly believed this man could command a starship.
In Season 3 that look seemed to be missing. It's a look that Chris Pine (a good actor) never captured for me.
In Season 3 Shatner just wasn't as fit, and much less dynamic than he was in Seasons 1 and 2. Maybe he was simlpy bored and less hungry as an actor?
Scotty became a caricature of himself, In Season 1 he was mostly cool and confident and focused on engines. In Season 2 he actually commanded the ship, and very well I might add. In season 3 he was almost always the panicky "Captain what do we do?!!!!" Scotty.
Even the music seemed a bit more bland to me. (I know Alexander Courage quit after that royalties incident where Roddenberry wrote non existent lyrics to Courage's theme song which took royalties away from Courage) Perhaps that had an effect. Dynamic scores like The Corbomite Maneuver, The Naked Time, Balance of Terror, Charlie X, Who Mourns for Adonais, Amok Time, and The Doomsday Machine just werent there in Season 3 for me. There were definitely a few bright spots in Season 3, but not nearly as many as in the previous seasons.
The cinematography in Season 3 was MUCH LESS inventive than it was Season 1, which had episodes that actually looked like feature length films of the time, whereas the 3rd Season used a a lot of medium shots and flatter, uninspired lighting. Clearly this was due to the loss of Jerry Finnerman. According to memory Alpha, "Finnerman remained with the series until early in the third season, quitting after production of the episode "The Empath". He left partly because he felt the series had become ridiculous"
I think that sums it up nicely for me.
Actually, a lot of members here have made some excellent points I hadn't considered. Its remarkable how a show could decline so much in so short a time. The only other example would be Space 1999 Season 1 compared to Season 2. The Frieburger touch perhaps.
In the end I think it demonstrates beautifully, how much of an effect the loss of several key people, can have on any project.
Spockboy
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TOS didn't "fall so far".TOS was great Season 1, 2 and 3 .I'm not getting on the I hate Season 3 bandwagon.
Yes there were a few dud episodes as there were in the other Seasons of TOS.But there was no big fall...
Also I don't think DS9 and TNG last seasons were their best either. They weren't getting exponentially better just as TOS wasn't getting exponentially worse. You can find dud episodes in all of the Treks in all Seasons.
Yes there were a few dud episodes as there were in the other Seasons of TOS.But there was no big fall...
Also I don't think DS9 and TNG last seasons were their best either. They weren't getting exponentially better just as TOS wasn't getting exponentially worse. You can find dud episodes in all of the Treks in all Seasons.
As Bob Justman said the budget was so low they were doing radio shows, as in all talk and little action. Less money for sets, props, location shooting, guest stars, etc.
On the whole, I tend to think Freiberger largely did his best in difficult circumstances on Trek 3.
However, it seems that in Hollywood he was always a second choice creative, who was hired in the absence/turn-down of anyone better: see Barney Rozenweig's comments on him in his memoir of making Cagney and Lacey, or Abe Mantell's query about why he was available to take over Space 1999 in September, when anyone good would be busy on a series.
And on 1999, he definitely made a flawed but promising and occasionally excellent series much worse; most of the good episodes of season two were scripts he'd shelved, but was forced to revive as the season end budget problems ruled out new commissions. Even the Lambda Factor, which was a FF commission... Terrance Dicks says it was the only time he sent in a script and heard nothing back, good or bad, until someone told him they'd seen it on-air.
However, it seems that in Hollywood he was always a second choice creative, who was hired in the absence/turn-down of anyone better: see Barney Rozenweig's comments on him in his memoir of making Cagney and Lacey, or Abe Mantell's query about why he was available to take over Space 1999 in September, when anyone good would be busy on a series.
And on 1999, he definitely made a flawed but promising and occasionally excellent series much worse; most of the good episodes of season two were scripts he'd shelved, but was forced to revive as the season end budget problems ruled out new commissions. Even the Lambda Factor, which was a FF commission... Terrance Dicks says it was the only time he sent in a script and heard nothing back, good or bad, until someone told him they'd seen it on-air.
I think Fred Frieberger gets a bad rap and mostly because of only one or two series, totally and conveniently, forgetting other shows he did well on. The Final Season of the Six Million Dollar Man is, for my money, better than the previous "mustache and jumpsuit" season. While there were some dud episodes, there were also some great ones. Also Freiberger alternated episodes with Allan Balter.
Yes, it was his vision of Space:1999 in year two, but even Gerry Anderson said the monster episodes were the result of Abe Mandell of ITC's New York arm demanding them because monsters were popular in the US at the time. The backed off from them once Mandell was aghast over seeing so many monsters after the fad faded.
Freiberger also produced a portion of the first season of The Wild Wild West and was the one who established the tongue in cheek formula that proved to be the shows salvation. He gets no credit for that and was unfairly ousted over Robert Conrad's objections because CBS wanted John Mantley in the role in an effort to pull control away from series creator Michael Garrison, who brought in Freiberger and liked him.
Freiberger wasn't the series killer people make him out to be. Trek was dead in the third season no matter who was in charge. Six Mil was in its 5th season, Lee Majors was bored and wanted out. Rather than recast with Gil Gerard or Bruce Jenner, the show was retired (the ratings were way down anyway). 1999 didn't pull in the numbers it had before in the US, but the primary reason there was no year three was because Lew Grade needed money to handle the promotion of his films and 1999's budget was pretty much the amount he was looking for. If the ratings were still up, they probably would have gone on, but who knows? If not for Freiberger, there would have been no second year of 1999.
Good point about the look in Kirk's eye. I never really noticed it, but there is definitely an intensity in the early season than there was in the back end.
As for Sandy Courage, it's not that cut and dried. While he didn't score any second season episodes specifically, he did contribute a lot of library music for the season. And then he came back for a few episodes in the third year. So, he may have been teed off about the royalties, but it didn't really stop him from coming back.
The Memory Alpha bit about Finnerman leaving because the "show had become ridiculous" is without citation. I never heard that before, only that he left to do a feature film. That sounds like someone projecting their own feelings about the season onto the article.
Yes, it was his vision of Space:1999 in year two, but even Gerry Anderson said the monster episodes were the result of Abe Mandell of ITC's New York arm demanding them because monsters were popular in the US at the time. The backed off from them once Mandell was aghast over seeing so many monsters after the fad faded.
Freiberger also produced a portion of the first season of The Wild Wild West and was the one who established the tongue in cheek formula that proved to be the shows salvation. He gets no credit for that and was unfairly ousted over Robert Conrad's objections because CBS wanted John Mantley in the role in an effort to pull control away from series creator Michael Garrison, who brought in Freiberger and liked him.
Freiberger wasn't the series killer people make him out to be. Trek was dead in the third season no matter who was in charge. Six Mil was in its 5th season, Lee Majors was bored and wanted out. Rather than recast with Gil Gerard or Bruce Jenner, the show was retired (the ratings were way down anyway). 1999 didn't pull in the numbers it had before in the US, but the primary reason there was no year three was because Lew Grade needed money to handle the promotion of his films and 1999's budget was pretty much the amount he was looking for. If the ratings were still up, they probably would have gone on, but who knows? If not for Freiberger, there would have been no second year of 1999.
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Even the music seemed a bit more bland to me. (I know Alexander Courage quit after that royalties incident where Roddenberry wrote non existent lyrics to Courage's theme song which took royalties away from Courage)
Good point about the look in Kirk's eye. I never really noticed it, but there is definitely an intensity in the early season than there was in the back end.
As for Sandy Courage, it's not that cut and dried. While he didn't score any second season episodes specifically, he did contribute a lot of library music for the season. And then he came back for a few episodes in the third year. So, he may have been teed off about the royalties, but it didn't really stop him from coming back.
The Memory Alpha bit about Finnerman leaving because the "show had become ridiculous" is without citation. I never heard that before, only that he left to do a feature film. That sounds like someone projecting their own feelings about the season onto the article.
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Broken record, I've posted this elsewher but: because of the weirdness, return to harder scifi, and eschewing the planet of hats rut of S2 and eliminating "humor" eps ... I like S3 just fine, though the fewer shipboard extras and lack of outdoor shoots does cheapen the vibe. With the creative team gone we're lucky those that stayed and FF hewed as close to what was established as they did. It was noted above how some other shows truly went off the rails in a final year.
Season two would have happened without FF, but hiring an American producer was a condition, and he already been approached as a possible writer. If he hadn't done it, there would have been a second season with another American in charge. No idea who... or what they'd have done.
The intriguing detail is that Freddie outlined his revamp of S1999 after watching eight episodes of season one. Which eight? There are eight I think are great, and eight that would make me bang my head against the wall at the idea of trying to salvage this show...
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I think people moan about series 2 of Space 1999 because it was so not series 1 in stories, style and credibility! But yes without Fred the show may not have continued into it's second year! And I'm a big fan of The Bringers of Wonder two parter!
JB
JB
I'm sure Collision Course would have been one episode that he would have watched, diankra!
JB
JB
TNG had a terrible last season. It might have had the look and polish of the show in its prime, but it was riddled with terrible and bland episodes, including "The Chase" and "Sub Rosa".
Like already pointed out, there were changes to the writing staff. Unfortunately, TOS suffered The Curse of The Last Season, which has afflicted many shows. The curse arises for many reasons: fired writers, fired producers, fired actors and actresses, headbutting of producers with various ones wanting something else, a cut in the budget, the studio making demands, and so forth and so on. Shows, for example, to suffer The Curse of the Last Season include:
"MillenniuM"
"Batman"
"Star Trek: The Next Generation"
"Miami Vice"
"Nash Bridges"
"Seaquest: DSV"
Like already pointed out, there were changes to the writing staff. Unfortunately, TOS suffered The Curse of The Last Season, which has afflicted many shows. The curse arises for many reasons: fired writers, fired producers, fired actors and actresses, headbutting of producers with various ones wanting something else, a cut in the budget, the studio making demands, and so forth and so on. Shows, for example, to suffer The Curse of the Last Season include:
"MillenniuM"
"Batman"
"Star Trek: The Next Generation"
"Miami Vice"
"Nash Bridges"
"Seaquest: DSV"
In Season 3 that look seemed to be missing.
The only thing missing in the Season 3 picture is a cape
TNG "Sub Rosa" was one of my "least favorite" episodes in the entire history of Star Trek. Only VOY "The Fight" comes to mind as something worse.
Regarding the Adam West Batman, the third season showed evidence of a severe budget cut. Outside of Wayne Manor, the Batcave, and the Commissioner's office, there were no sets! Whether they needed a courtroom or the dungeon under a castle, you name it, it was a big open space with some furniture or other portable pieces plopped down in the middle. [And yet, as a kiddie, I was still taken in.]
I have to disagree with you here. Compared to SeaQuest's second season, the third was a masterpiece. Actually, I found most of the episodes of that final half-season to be excellent. Characters were deepened, the premise made more realistic, and there were real consequences. Truth be told, I loved the final season of SeaQuest. Had they cancelled it after the second, I wouldn't have cared. I liked the third season so much, I was really bummed with it was axed. I felt like they had finally hit their stride.
I am coming to realize I've been on the wrong side all these years. Every show peaks and then can't maintain it. It's amazing that, with all the problems, ST still managed to keep the quality level so high in s3. Half the reason s3 is disliked is that for many fans, the romantic content, and extra emotion in stories too, is "chick stuff", and probably wouldn't go over with these fans no matter how well handled. The other half of the s3 dislike is the overwhelming irritation factor of certain moments or short scenes. An annoying thing happens for 20 seconds, and that's enough to distract totally from 3/4 of an hour of good story.
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If all we had of Trek was s3, it would still be honored as this great, obscure show, despite the flaws.
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If all we had of Trek was s3, it would still be honored as this great, obscure show, despite the flaws.
I doubt it. For one thing, if all we had was a single season, it probably wouldn't have been the same success in syndication as the show ultimately was. For another, as much as the letter writing campaign has been exaggerated in size and influence, it was an important myth about Star Trek in the 70s. Without it, Star Trek fans would just be another group that wrote in to the network were ignored - their favorite one season wonder given the axe without a second thought.
My guess would be that Anderson showed him episodes that showed off the effects, which might not have been great ones character-wise. So Breakaway, War Games, and then no idea.
It's reasonably clear that FF wasn't keen on season one generally, so he treated season two as a reboot, and if it had worked then maybe repeats would have concentrated on seasons two onwards, like the way that b&w first seasons of some shows, or the Dan Briggs episodes of M:I, were rarities for decades.
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Not sure the show was ever about that.
Utter nonsense.
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