Spoilers Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Grading & Discussion

[Reverend]

Stolen from who, though? The only people we see with X/Y/A-wings are the rebels. These ships don't really follow the former Republic / Imperial design lineage, either. Most of the fighters from the prequel trilogy are obviously (at least to me) designs from which the TIEs evolved.

Mostly the Imperial military, either active equipment or mothballed stuff left over from the clone wars (Republic & Seperatist) and of course from the loyal and not at all treasonous royal house of Alderaan.
I'm sure they ripped off a few pirate gangs and mercenary groups too. Indeed probably the only time credits changed hands was on those occasions they may have bought from underworld weapons dealers...which were also probably stolen property.

 

[Marc]

Mostly the Imperial military, either active equipment or mothballed stuff left over from the clone wars (Republic & Seperatist) and of course from the loyal and not at all treasonous royal house of Alderaan.
I'm sure they ripped off a few pirate gangs and mercenary groups too. Indeed probably the only time credits changed hands was on those occasions they may have bought from underworld weapons dealers...which were also probably stolen property.

From what's in wookiepedia (so pretty much as canon as we can get), the X-wings were built by Incom as fighter with the speed and firepower to even take on Star Destroyers.

The Rebels got hold of the plans (doesn't say whether they were given freely or stolen) who then proeeded to build the ships themselves.

TLR the Rebels didn't steal the X-wings.

 

[Ithekro]

Y-wings are stolen Clone Wars era Republic fighter/bombers. A-wings are likely older planetary defense fighters or somewhat designed off the older Jedi Starfighters, these seem to be available in numbers during the age of the Empire. The X-wing's lineage is the ARC-170 starfighter and the Z-95 Headhunter (a version of which started to show up later in the Clone Wars). The X-wings are likely still built by the Alliance if they decide to follow what they have for it presently.

 

[Reverend]

If X-Wings were a new design by Incom and the Alliance got the blueprints from them, even if the engineers defected and gave them willingly it's still theft because Incom was nationalised right after they started making U-Wings. That means anything they produce either in terms of materiel or designs is Imperial property.

Personally I like to think the X-Wings were something Incom built for the Republic towards the end of the Clone Wars, but the conflict ended just as they started rolling off the production line. The Empire preferring to go with the new cheaper mass producible units from Sienar opted not to purchase them and quickly restricted the sale of military equipment to third parties, making it impossible for Incom to sell them on to planetary militias.
As a result, the X-Wings would have been sitting around under dust sheets in some warehouse for nearly two decades by the time the Alliance acquired them, along with enough replacement parts to maintain them and the data and equipment needed to build new ones.

Basically imagine a Delorian parts warehouse, but for X-Wings.

 

[Ithekro]

The X-wing in canon is still one of those mysteries that have not been explained. We have not seen them at all in Rebels, yet the Rebel fleet in almost all later times has a majority of X-wings in their Starfighter corps verse everything else. There are few if any A-wings at Scarif. No B-wings (we know those are new). By Endor the Rebel fleet has some B-wings, as well as A-wing groups, some Y-wings, and still lots of X-wings. There are probably about as many X-wings as there are all the other types combined at Endor. There were certainly a lot more X-wings at both Scarif and Yavin than Y-wings.


The old EU stuff, especially the West End Games materials (that seems to be were the Story Group finds some of their roots for background materials) has the Rebel Alliance had more than a third of its relatively small budgets devoted to Starfighters (both acquiring and maintaining said forces). The Alliance had several worlds and or hidden dock that produced Starfighters for the Rebellion. Most are as well hidden as possible with as much of the materials possible produced locally so the Empire has nothing they can trace. The few pilots that test the new fighters are probably the only ones the Empire could catch to find said factories. Even the pilots that ferry the new fighters out are brought in blind. I would guess they leave blind as well, their astromechs programmed to wipe the previous coordinates then from wherever they jump to the pilots are allowed to navigate back to wherever their own bases or ships are located.

Because the Prime Directive is not a thing in Star Wars, it was speculated that they Alliance could use something like a pre-Atomic or early Atomic Era planet, help one faction over another and have the locals retool their propeller drive airplane plants with Starfighter production lines, with a large part of the production staying local in case the Empire does show up, and the rest going to the Rebel Alliance for distribution to various cells and the Fleet. Image companies like Lockheed, Boeing, Grumman, Mitsubishi, Fokker, Dornier, Messerschmitt and the like producing X-wings in the 1940s.

With the new canon, that means the Alliance would be building X-wings and B-wings for the most part with the Mon Calamari are refitting their "ships" into combat cruisers that can take on Star Destroyers. The remaining Y-wings are stolen from Imperial wrecking yards, mothballed Republic units, or old clone fighters that were sold off to planetary governments following the end of the war. The A-wings are likely purchased by sympathetic worlds and "donated" to the rebels much like Alderaan does. It is possible that the X-wings are another common planetary defense fighter that can be purchased and "donated", but we've yet to see them in Rebels (though one can guess Dodanna's group will have them) unless the Producers of Rebels or one of the other groups at Lucasfilm want to tell the story about where the Rebellion got all those X-wings we see later on.

The T-65 X-wing, at least from our perspective, has become the fighter of the Rebel Alliance, and its legacy continues up to TFA with the older T-70 X-wings the Resistance uses, and the reported T-85 X-wings the New Republic uses at that time.

 

[dahj]

Considering most Alliance equipment is probably stolen anyway

I believe Supreme Leader Snoke once referred to them as "filthy thieving hobbitses"

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Whoever built these, builds x-wings, too.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aggressive_ReConnaissance-170_starfighter

 

[B.J.]

I believe we've only seen a fighter factory in Rebels, but there's no reason one has to be tied to a planet. Many of the Rebel capital ships are much bigger than current-day fighter factories, so it would probably be easy to convert one into a mobile factory (if they didn't already have one). Something like that would be much harder for the Empire to track down.

 

[Reverend]

Well it was already established last year in Rebels that Bail has a sympathetic shipwright somewhere willing to start rolling out production model B-Wings for him, so one assumes there would be a similar arrangement for the X-Wings if indeed the Rebels are the ones building them and they're not just old stock.

Personally, I'm more a fan of the "old stock" version since those fighters in no way looked factory new in either ANH or RO. Indeed, they looked almost as beat up as the Y-Wings which we know for a fact are decades old at this point. I never quite understood why some felt that the X-Wings somehow *needed* to be a new design.

 

[Venardhi]

Considering how stagnant technology appears to be in the GFFA, the idea that there would be brand new models every decade or two never seemed an organic one.

 

[Reverend]

Considering how stagnant technology appears to be in the GFFA, the idea that there would be brand new models every decade or two never seemed an organic one.

The way I see it, there being a lot of new military ship designs flying around is a relatively recent development and it started with the Clone Wars.
If you think about it, prior to that time the last major conflict was a millennia ago so it stands to reason that the Republic didn't really have anything on hand, necessitating developing a whole slew of new designs. Top to bottom, from military grade speeder bikes, to gunships, fighters, troop & armor transports, all the way to capital ships of the line. Once the Republic became the Empire, they probably nationalised most of the major shipyards and corporations that survived the war, making bespoke, artisan designs like the Nubian J-27 a thing of the past.

Of course "new" does not necessarily mean "more advanced". Most Imperial ships are all about ease of mass production to support a doctrine of overwhelming numbers and firepower over one-to-one effectiveness (a lesson they seemed to learn from the Separatist droid armies.)
An N-1 could cut through a standard TIE, or even a TIE/X1 like it was made of tissue paper, but for the cost of an N-1 you can probably build a full squadron of TIEs and since the Empire doesn't value the lives of their pilots, they're entirely disposable.

Personally I like the idea that there were ships being made prior to the Clone Wars that while physically new, were of a design that's been in use for centuries. The Hammerhead corvettes are probably a good example of just that.

 

[fireproof78]

I never thought of the X-wings as "new" in terms of age, but that they were "newer" in comparison to the Y-Wings. As different fans and theories have been pointed out, there is the possibility of them being developed right at the end of the Clone Wars only for the Empire to be like "Nah, we need something more economical. It doesn't need those frills like hyperdrive, torpedoes or air."

 

[Reverend]

I never thought of the X-wings as "new" in terms of age, but that they were "newer" in comparison to the Y-Wings. As different fans and theories have been pointed out, there is the possibility of them being developed right at the end of the Clone Wars only for the Empire to be like "Nah, we need something more economical. It doesn't need those frills like hyperdrive, torpedoes or air."

Small point but TIE fighters do actually have life support, as seen in both Rebels & TFA.

 

[Solariabsg25]

We know the Y-Wings were in service during the Clone Wars. The X-Wings are a design that follows the lineage from the ARC-170 through the Z-95 to the T-65.

During the original trilogy, Y-Wings seem to be fewer in number. This may be due to the fact that as the Clone Wars were entering their final stages, they were being supplanted by the ARC-170s and V-Wings, so there may not be any actual manufacturing facilities to produce new ships, only facilities that may be able to produce spare parts. The X-Wings are probably manufactured at secret facilities hidden on some of the planets that support the Rebel Alliance, but the manufacturing will still be difficult, limited by funding and having to be kept from the prying eyes of Imperial Agents.

The T-75 X-Wings from Force Awakens show what can be accomplished when they are able to manufacture them freely without fear of discovery, and I can't remember seeing any other fighter types in the Resistance.

 

[fireproof78]

Small point but TIE fighters do actually have life support, as seen in both Rebels & TFA.

It's a joke. Also, the TFA ones were "Special Forces" so some modifications.

 

[Marc]

During the original trilogy, Y-Wings seem to be fewer in number. This may be due to the fact that as the Clone Wars were entering their final stages, they were being supplanted by the ARC-170s and V-Wings, so there may not be any actual manufacturing facilities to produce new ships, only facilities that may be able to produce spare parts. The X-Wings are probably manufactured at secret facilities hidden on some of the planets that support the Rebel Alliance, but the manufacturing will still be difficult, limited by funding and having to be kept from the prying eyes of Imperial Agents.

Rebels a few eps showed the Empire scrapping old Y-wings so the few the Alliance had were either stashed after the Clone Wars or stolen from imperial scrapping facilities.

 

[Jono]

Really enjoyed the film. Went in knowing about the pacing issues and the thinness of the characters, but still really got into it. Hopefully we'll see some of the characters return in other productions.

Didn't have too much of an issue with the CGI humans and I liked that they did "retain" the actors. Even though I though Leia was a bit off putting in appearance it did tug at my heartstrings a bit to see a young Fisher with her death so recent.

One thing I'm going to look out for when I next see it is if the Rebel fleet actually fires. A friend is adamant that they didn't and looking back I can't really remember it being obvious either.

 

[Reverend]

One thing I'm going to look out for when I next see it is if the Rebel fleet actually fires. A friend is adamant that they didn't and looking back I can't really remember it being obvious either.

It's hard to tell since the camera tends to stay with the fighters more than anything, but I definitely saw the Profundity and at least one Blockade Runner shooting at TIEs. Indeed on my second viewing I'm pretty sure I saw what looked like laser fire coming from a GR-75 of all things. Didn't spot any Nebulon-Bs firing, but the Ghost definitely shot down several TIEs on screen.
Again, it's tricky to tell without the ability to pause, but the giveaway is (at least as far as the ships are concerned): green bolts=Empire. Red bolts=Rebels.

All that said, I don't think anything but the fighters attacked the Star Destroyers. Probably because none of them had the ordinance to penetrate a destroyer's shields, so save their energy for their own shields and point defence. In RPG terms, the big ships were there to tank while the fighters were for DPS.

 

[Tallguy]

I've hated the retcon that x-wings are newly built by a rebel manufacturer. Back in the day they were supposed to be leftovers from the old days. Part of Lucas' "technology doesn't win wars" Apocalypse Now mentality.

They did a nice job on Clone Wars with the Y-Wings. But dammit, Obi-Wan and Anakin should have been flying shiny new T-65s.

 

[B.J.]

^ What retcon? I thought what we'd been saying for the last few pages is that we don't currently know the origins of the X-Wing, or even how old they are. Or did I miss something?