Trek set in an intergalactic level
- Thread starter Voth commando1
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The worm-hole-to-another-galaxy would be interesting for one or two episodes (the Enterprise D ended up in another galaxy) But after the novelty wore off, would the writers return to old Trek tropes?
Note-the wormhole worked in a dramatic sense for DS9, because it permitted an invasion by a formidable power.
But now Trek has done World War II in space. Time to give the big war trope a rest.
Note-the wormhole worked in a dramatic sense for DS9, because it permitted an invasion by a formidable power.
But now Trek has done World War II in space. Time to give the big war trope a rest.
You'd need a long show only if your narrative goal was to get somewhere. My point was that a show about a ship in extragalactic space, rather than a show about a ship arriving in another galaxy, would be different than what we've already seen--not necessarily better or more to my liking--just different, which is more than can be said for any of the intergalactic show concepts, all of which end up sounding like either The Next Generation, Voyager or Deep Space Nine in structure, with slightly modified place names.
What would you fill the long empty void with?
I actually agree with that. In my previous post, I was exaggerating a bit in an attempt to make my point clear. Obviously, I think there is more to it than just window dressing, otherwise I would have been content with Odyssey-type stories and never have felt the need to turn to SF in the first place.
But what that 'more' exactly is, I don't know. Perhaps the simple fact that we still don't know for sure if there is alien intelligent life and what it would be like to be in contact with them, whereas the earth has been explored sufficiently to know that Odyssey-type monsters and cyclopes and so on as such do not exist on our planet as we experience it. There are no more entirely new major races and civilisations to encounter in this age, and so perhaps I have the feeling there is no room for the implausible there, ... but there still is in space. Not sure about this question about what is the deepest essence of star trek for me.
Anyway, I agree with your general gist that setting it in a new galaxy would probably simply be 'more of the same' we already had in this galaxy.
I'm picturing a show now that works out some of the themes touched upon in voyagers Night. Nothing substantial to do for long stretches of time, having to fight bouts of depression while they're trekking through a near-endless void. It could be interesting for a few episodes, perhaps, but an entire series ...?
Or, the crew would have to turn inward and construct a self-sufficient social community in which 'everything happens'. Which could be a viable way of combating the loneliness, but in essence, the extragalactic background would then disappear.
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Three years of nothing followed by a year of exploration and setting up supply and support base in a small star cluster between galaxies and then another three years of nothing until they reach the other galaxy where they have to explore a little for a place to set up supply and support bases followed by holding the area until more ships can arrive.
During this time they would have to attempt to form local alliances and figure out the what local politics are happening so the Federation can establish a toe hold in both the star cluster and the new galaxy while having a very long support chain and potentially years between resupply and if stuff goes badly, three to six years (roughly) before backup can arrive. Assuming they can communicated effectively with Starfleet at all over those ranges.
The show would not have to show the entire trip, as that would be rather dull or full of holodeck adventures since they would likely be nothing to see for two spans of three years. The rest is potentially the same as other Star Trek, though a mix of various series points depending on who the focus is on. Exploration, setting up an infrastructure, being a long, long way from home, and having to deal with the natives a lot with little support.
One would assume Starfleet would not send just one ship on a venture like this, but a small fleet with transports and colony ships so they can at least form a small hub quickly in two major locations. The Milky Way end could be just on the other side of the Galactic Barrier, or use the energies of it for the trip (some form of wormhole like tech that only works between extragalactic bodies. So if you get dumped out of it, you might be stuck between galaxies for a century or more.) Though if this happens in an episode, I would guess the chief engineer or science officer would come up with a way to get them back into it somehow, or by fate they find a rogue planet that has some of the energy around it and can use to jump again.
During this time they would have to attempt to form local alliances and figure out the what local politics are happening so the Federation can establish a toe hold in both the star cluster and the new galaxy while having a very long support chain and potentially years between resupply and if stuff goes badly, three to six years (roughly) before backup can arrive. Assuming they can communicated effectively with Starfleet at all over those ranges.
The show would not have to show the entire trip, as that would be rather dull or full of holodeck adventures since they would likely be nothing to see for two spans of three years. The rest is potentially the same as other Star Trek, though a mix of various series points depending on who the focus is on. Exploration, setting up an infrastructure, being a long, long way from home, and having to deal with the natives a lot with little support.
One would assume Starfleet would not send just one ship on a venture like this, but a small fleet with transports and colony ships so they can at least form a small hub quickly in two major locations. The Milky Way end could be just on the other side of the Galactic Barrier, or use the energies of it for the trip (some form of wormhole like tech that only works between extragalactic bodies. So if you get dumped out of it, you might be stuck between galaxies for a century or more.) Though if this happens in an episode, I would guess the chief engineer or science officer would come up with a way to get them back into it somehow, or by fate they find a rogue planet that has some of the energy around it and can use to jump again.
This is exactly... EXACTLY... the mistake made with Voyager and to some extent DS9. With both, the idea was, let's set it across the galaxy to make SURE we have much more excitingly alien situations!! Then, of course, writers have to come up with this much MORE exciting stuff, and presumably they were already doing the best they could on Next Gen. We were already out in space, supposedly meeting the unknown and alien all the time. If Next Gen's writers weren't doing a good job at that, why not hire new writers and still set everything in our quadrant, which should be a big and exciting and scary enough place for anyone.
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I've made the mistake in my life of trying to solve problems by shifting my location. Your problems still follow you.
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Still, an intergalactic element would be great IF it could be carried off. But who these days can even manage real SF of any kind on TV? I like the idea of beings who aren't plain old ordinary surrogates for the contemporary viewer, in some future hard-to-imagine time maybe, thinking and operating on a multi-galactic scale. I actually had a Next Gen dream with a fantastic huge upgraded Ent-D in something like this. Then we're getting into areas that only seem to interest SF novel readers, readers of the older stuff.
A long-term excursion into the intergalactic void offers intriguing story possibilities...no planets of the week or alien visitors, all drama would have to come from the crew of the ship itself--pretty much the antithesis of "Gene's vision," which could be exactly the kick in the butt that Trek needs after cloning TNG for so many years.
Our galaxy in Trek is NOT populated by mostly humanoids. Explanations as in Return to Tomorrow and The Chase only explain why there are any humanoids besides us out there at ALL. Put all those familiar species played by human actors together, and they're a drop in the bucket. Many members of the Federation may be very alien. The next planet away from Earth with intelligent life may have six limbs and two heads. They may pass it every time they go back and forth to Earth. It's much easier for humanoids to deal with each other and operate the machinery and stay in the same environment, so we humanoids tend to hang out with each other more.
Just to be clear, I am not saying I want the next series to be set in extragalactic space or that setting it there would be the best move for the franchise. I was just pointing out that, for all its obvious flaws and shortcomings, an extragalactic show would be different from current Trek in ways that an intergalactic show would not.
While there are many ways a story changes when it gets treated like science fiction, I think you're describing the main one. Science fiction is neither realistic or predictive. But its imaginative work is based upon principles of scientific reality as we understand it. This basis in scientific reality distinguishes science fiction from fantasy. It also distinguishes science fiction from older stories of exploration like the Odyssey, because while those stories were based on the reality of the people who told them (unlike fantasy stories), those people's sense of reality was different than ours and did not include our concept of science.
But it can be predictive and realistic, hence "hard scifi." One of my friends often laments the concept in contemporary storytelling, especially film, that "science fiction" means "making up science."
Science fiction can be more fantastical but there is still a basis that it needs, either through technology or characters who then respond to the changes that are being encountered. It's one of the reasons I am still fascinated by the genre because there are so many new developments and concepts being discovered that exploring the possible consequences of those changes fascinates me.
This is one of the reasons why exploring the void space between galaxies interests me because you could take alien life in a direction that hasn't been explored before based upon knowledge that scientists know now.
Vandervecken mentioned the stars scattered in intergalactic space. Perhaps those relatively close to the Milky Way might be accessible using slipstream.
Traveling to such might be compared to a Mars mission, while to travel to Andromeda, might be compared to an expedition to Alpha Centauri.
Traveling to such might be compared to a Mars mission, while to travel to Andromeda, might be compared to an expedition to Alpha Centauri.
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Yes, you're right.
I was trying to make the argument that science fiction has a basis in reality that some other kinds of fiction lack. But I anticipated objection to that position, because much that would qualify as science fiction is not especially realistic. In trying to answer that anticipated objection, I swung my rhetoric too far the other way by writing, "Science fiction is neither realistic or predictive." What I should have written is that science fiction need not be realistic or predictive, but its imaginative work is always somehow based upon principles of scientific reality as we understand it.
Incidentally, much of what I would consider "hard science fiction" is not necessarily realistic, much less predictive though. It just engages the ideas and discourse of science more fully, with more complexity.
I'd like to see early Intergalactic travel as something of a Trek variety Moonshot. Over time--you can get an OUTLAND vibe.
It actually made me mad to see the ships from Stargate move from galaxy to galaxy with ease-- and yet you see folks with regular slug-thrower guns.
The overall trek tech level is higher in general--but they're stuck.
Trek does need an upgrade.
It actually made me mad to see the ships from Stargate move from galaxy to galaxy with ease-- and yet you see folks with regular slug-thrower guns.
The overall trek tech level is higher in general--but they're stuck.
Trek does need an upgrade.
With the long dark journey idea, I can see possibilities in the intership politics of a fleet, exploring the factions that develop. Of course what we would see would be little like trek as we know it, arguably different enough to warrant not being trek at all and becoming a separate franchise, BSG for instance, which has pretty much cornered the market there.
More interesting whilst remaining within the ballpark of trek would be the efforts to create a high tech alternative to that long journey, some new form of slipstream/transwarp/whatever that led to unexpected dangers and/or partial failure. Some horror waiting in the unknown dimension which would become an underlying aspect of the series. Again though thats largely DS9 remade, or maybe 40K in the ST universe.
I can't help but go with the consensus here and say the galaxy is already ridiculously huge and mostly full of unknowns. The reasons we see mostly humanoid aliens of the week would remain, thus enlarging the setting would simply result in more of the same. All that would change would be they would ostensibly come from further away.
More interesting whilst remaining within the ballpark of trek would be the efforts to create a high tech alternative to that long journey, some new form of slipstream/transwarp/whatever that led to unexpected dangers and/or partial failure. Some horror waiting in the unknown dimension which would become an underlying aspect of the series. Again though thats largely DS9 remade, or maybe 40K in the ST universe.
I can't help but go with the consensus here and say the galaxy is already ridiculously huge and mostly full of unknowns. The reasons we see mostly humanoid aliens of the week would remain, thus enlarging the setting would simply result in more of the same. All that would change would be they would ostensibly come from further away.
Never mind the galaxy, the Alpha Quadrant itself is largely uncharted territory. Despite being the quadrant the Federation has done most of its exploring in, only a small percentage has been visited. There's still a vast swath of unknown space there, and there's three other quadrants in our own galaxy where the Federation has even less presence.
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Meh, it would just be more rubber forehead aliens and a ship that despite exploring the Virgo supercluster, would still have episodes involving adventures on the holodeck, or it's 26th century equivalent anyway. You'd hear things like "set course for M31, Warp 25X" or something, and they'd be there in a few minutes. There would be no real feel of distance, just as there was no real feel of distance in TNG/DS9 or even VOY. Yeah, they were 75,000 light years from home, but did it really feel that way from week to week? Not for me.
Anyhoo, there's also the issue that the farther out you get from the century in which your audience lives, the more chance of them becoming disconnected to the characters, because they find 26th-30th century characters more unrelatable. I don't care to see what 30th century characters are doing. It's so far off as to never affect me in any way.
Anyhoo, there's also the issue that the farther out you get from the century in which your audience lives, the more chance of them becoming disconnected to the characters, because they find 26th-30th century characters more unrelatable. I don't care to see what 30th century characters are doing. It's so far off as to never affect me in any way.
Okay how is the 23rd century with half human half elven emotionless beings going to effect you or heck 22ns century elven logical beings with blue people with antennae and stuff. Why shouldn't Star Trek be able to explore the farther future? 26th C. To 31 C? Or even beyond like 1,000,000 AD or something crazy like that. There isn't much difference in relatibility.
In terms of distance you might get that feeling better in a novel. Come to think of it Voyager didn't have even semi regular contact with the federation until season 4. In DS9 travel over 70,000 light years is easy peazy because wormhole.
In my thread about whether or not the franchise has exhausted itself I meant it in thematic terms yet setting believe it or not is important. Sure you could have a modern fx budget and deal with adventures of the six legged alien lieutenant in the alpa quadrant in the year 2295 or something but really your just filling in gaps(not that there is a problem with that).
