Section 31 protect against threats. They just do it behind the scenes. WHo si to say they are not officially sanctioned by the Federation but with highly secretive orders? It could be a select number of Admirals finance them and ensure they counter threats.
Section 31
- Thread starter 2takesfrakes
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Semantics. Section 31 sees themselves as being part of the Federation's founding charter. Legality based on technicalities is not true legality if it wouldn't hold up in an open trial.
"Protect against threats" is the kind of vague justification that excuses fascism. If you need to manipulate other nations' politics through espionage and subversion to protect your country, it doesn't deserve to be protected. Make no mistake, section 31 is a fascist organization has rationalized itself into a corner where it can do no wrong, and is justified in assassination and even genocide so long as it can claim it was 'Protecting the Federation'.
A nation that deserves to be 'protected against threats' does so through building a strong military but only exercising it defensively within its borders, and by building good faith relationships with other governments through diplomacy.
Well we've seen very little of their policies, but Sloane's example would seem to suggest they'd act fairly selflessly. Being ruthless in pursuit of one's goals does not require those goals to be self serving.
In fact, where have we seen any evidence of them being power hungry as such?
Except the problem might lie with "other nation" and not your own. If the work of a small number of operatives (official or not) results in thousands or millions of your own people not dying on the battle field, so much the better.
That the illness that S31 infected the Founders with didn't push them into surrendering sooner (thereby saving Federation lives) could be seen as S31 doing something wrong. S31 is probably well aware that they can make mistakes.
The "wait until the last second" philosophy? If possible you fight wars on the other guys territory.
Admiral Nyota Uhura....
And yet you still made a comment...
The same could be said of any nation with an intelligence apparatus. Nations compete at levels other than outright warfare and it would be simple naivety to assume the ST universe is any different.
Is this morally correct? There's no clear answer as the specifics of any given activity would decide that, not the overarching concept of covert operations. It is however undeniably true.
Bear in mind much of the intelligence organisations we see around the world have come into being in times of crisis or warfare specifically with a view to saving lives by avoiding catastrophic military and civilian losses in conflict, not taking them unecessarily.
Sisko was uncomfortable with the S31 virus, understandably so, but bear in mind this is a man who sterilised a populated planet himself with far less justification, who manipulated the Romulans into a crippling war for much the same motives and using much the same sort sof underhanded tactics.
S31 represent the James Bonds or Jack Bauers of the federation, people who do especially unsavoury things to ward off greater evils.
And that poster went on a message board to talk about this mere fiction of Star Trek.
Or we are. Whatever.
since this is a forum, and that's the point.
And this is a very naive view of things. This presumes all others play ball, it's a free galaxy/universe, and not everybody will adhere to Federation ethics.
Exactly. So it does matter, within the context of the forum and this thread, specifically.
I don't understand. I just responded to his point....he said it makes things more realistic. My view is that it's pretty moot if things are realistic or not, it's fiction. i don't see the contention....
Section 31 doesn't protect against threats. Section 31 IS a threat.
A threat to freedom, democracy, and basically any kind of human decency and compassion.
A threat to freedom, democracy, and basically any kind of human decency and compassion.
Section 31 is protecting the Federation. they don't do anything to endanger the average Joe, and Sloan was right, it was a dangerous universe. Not everybody shared the Federation's view of right or wrong.
More so than the CIA?
Like the FBI...and the CIA...and the BBC...B.B. King...and Doris Day....
At least the CIA is a legitimate part of the United States government. It has Congressional oversight, and is responsible to the President.
Section 31 doesn't have any of that. In the most literal sense, Section 31 does whatever it wants. Am I and @Sci the only ones who see how dangerous that is?
Section 31 doesn't have any of that. In the most literal sense, Section 31 does whatever it wants. Am I and @Sci the only ones who see how dangerous that is?
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