I don't know, what about those American/English captains on Ships named after Americans/Englishmen?
The captain may have been on the team who made the ship, maybe she named the ship, maybe she requested the post?
Shenzhou is not a name, it is a designation
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I don't know, what about those American/English captains on Ships named after Americans/Englishmen?
The captain may have been on the team who made the ship, maybe she named the ship, maybe she requested the post?
That's all rationalizing after the fact though. From a production standpoint someone thought it would be appropriate to give an asian captain an asian ship. In a way it's stereotyping. And no, the reference to previous ships being anglo oriented doesn't really excuse it. Just because it's a continuing trend in the institution does not make it acceptable. It's a small thing though in the grand scheme, it just "erks" me a little as I see it as lacking imagination.
Good to know. Would modern day taikonauts Jing Haipeng and Chen Dong who were on Shenzhou 11 be considered stereotyping too since they are a Chinese crew on a China spacecraft?
So what's your point then? So there's a Starfleet ship named the U.S.S. Shenzhou. There's also a U.S.S. Apollo, a U.S.S. Soyuz, and a U.S.S. Voyager.
Also, translation can be inexact and misleading. Vostok, Voskhod and Zarya are usually translated into different words in English, but are all differently emphasized versions of the same concept (Sunrise in the east at dawn). So don't be over exact about the meaning of Shenzou!
Only if they were characters on a fictional international spacecraft being written by americans.
In what way is that? The stereotype of starship captains of Chinese-descent serving aboard Chinese-named ships in Trek? Because that's not a thing. The over-abundance of English-named characters serving on English-named ships is, though. It would only be stereotyping if the ship or the captain or the combination of the two represented some outdated cliché about Chinese people.
Can't have it both ways. either it is or isn't. It shouldn't really matter what ethnicity is being represented. They're both examples of the same issue. It just becomes more apparent with the asian usage because it stands out more in a show that historically targeted the north american market with it's naming conventions in previous shows.
Like I said in my previous post, it's more a failure of imagination on the writers/producers parts than anything else. I don't think it comes anywhere close to being "offensive" or insensitive, just a little too "on the nose" as I originally said. It's bad writing that smacks of fan fiction levels of rationalization "in universe".
Actually, you can have it both ways when you're specifically addressing a historical inequity.
I don't think you understand what a stereotype is, because it's not just "anything I find vaguely objectionable which is associated with an ethnic group." Having a Chinese-descent captain on a Chinese-named ship would only be a stereotype if there was a long history of that happening in Trek to such an extent that it became a cliché. There is no history of that happening in Trek, however. Anglo-named captains on Anglo-named ships on the other hand are a dime a dozen, which does make it a stereotype (although conveniently one that is more problematic toward minorities than it is to the dominant group), albeit one few seemed to care about over the past fifty years until now all of a sudden when it's a Chinese character and Chinese ship finally getting some balance.
It's not bad writing either, since it's just one character and ship name and we don't know how it impacts the episodic writing of the series yet at all. You're jumping the gun with this nitpick. If they make the ship a jade-colored opium smuggling ship covered in golden dragons, you might have a point, but until then, it's an attempt at being more inclusive.
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You seem to be stuck on my use of the word "stereotype", so let's excise it and reduce my objection to what I have been saying for the last few posts. "Inclusive" was including an asian character played by an asian actor. "Lazy" is further reinforcing that by putting her on a ship with a name from an asian source as well. Maybe I've just read more bad fiction than you and recognize the hallmarks when I see it, or I just have a higher bar for what good fiction is. And I never said it was a sign that the entire show would suffer from this lazy writing, which you seem to be inferring.
And yes, I do understand what a stereotype is. It may be the wrong word for this situation, but it's the closest I can think of to represent the issue.
Anyway, good grief can people go on a about a small comment about something being "a little on the nose".
And yes, I do understand what a stereotype is. It may be the wrong word for this situation, but it's the closest I can think of to represent the issue.
Anyway, good grief can people go on a about a small comment about something being "a little on the nose".
I understand for most of you guys, the USS Shenzhou is a valid name because Mandarin isn't a language you understand. It is a problem for me because it is my primary language. And that breaks my immersion because every time I read USS Shenzhou my brain automatically translates it into USS Starship,
Just a little fun fact... Michelle Yeoh is born in Malaysia. I live about 4 hour's drive away from Ipoh, where she was born. While we're both racially Chinese, I think it's safe to say we treat the chinese culture and China are two very different things. So from this perspective, it is also weird that Michelle's given a ship that bears the name of a China space craft rather than say a Malaysian name. But again, that's just me and my immersion being broken.
Just a little fun fact... Michelle Yeoh is born in Malaysia. I live about 4 hour's drive away from Ipoh, where she was born. While we're both racially Chinese, I think it's safe to say we treat the chinese culture and China are two very different things. So from this perspective, it is also weird that Michelle's given a ship that bears the name of a China space craft rather than say a Malaysian name. But again, that's just me and my immersion being broken.
No one was disputing that, though. They were just suggesting that what it translates to isn't necessarily what they were naming it after. They were honoring the spacecraft program itself. I gave an example of what if they named a ship USS SpaceShipTwo to honor that space program? It sounds inelegant, I'll grant you.
Besides, USS Divine Ark, Divine Vessel, or Divine Land don't sound as bad as USS Spaceship, so why not go for one of those alternate translations?
The name is variously translated as "Divine Ark", "Divine Vessel" or similar, but is also a reference to a literary name for China with the same pronunciation (神州 Shénzhōu; literally "Divine Land").
I think that has more to do with appealing to the lucrative Chinese market where she is hugely popular. The Malaysian market is quite large too, but not nearly as sizable as the Chinese market.
I'm just wondering why people are all of a sudden freaking out over possibly having a "USS SpaceShip"...I mean, look at the Enterprise's dedication plaque from TOS. "Starship Class". Hello?!? 
Given that Discovery won't be available there, that would be a curious strategy.
I like the name. I think it's neat.
Forever?
Why is it weird? Others have complained about the coincidence of the captain and the ship name being of the same nationality. So having her be a different nationality makes it less coincidental, doesn't it?
Only if we assume that Captain Bo is Malaysian, I guess.
The safer assumption would be that Captain Bo is American. After all, she will be speaking American.
Starfleet naming a vessel "USS Space Capsule" or "USS Orbiter" doesn't sound particularly unlikely. After all, one of the most infamous ships in the Royal Navy was named HMS Captain - what would be more fitting than a bit of nostalgic in-house jargon?
Timo Saloniemi
The safer assumption would be that Captain Bo is American. After all, she will be speaking American.
Starfleet naming a vessel "USS Space Capsule" or "USS Orbiter" doesn't sound particularly unlikely. After all, one of the most infamous ships in the Royal Navy was named HMS Captain - what would be more fitting than a bit of nostalgic in-house jargon?
Timo Saloniemi
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