Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion

[M.A.C.O.]

Funny, what MCU movie I feel like watching really depends on my mood, since I find them so diverse in style. I guess that's because it's a matter of opinion, not fact.....

I was referring to the house style Marvel Studios has. The films themselves are diverse, yes. For me however, I find myself only watching a select few of them from time to time.

Captain America TWS: For my James Bond/Mission Impossible thriller.
Iron Man 1: For my scifi hero's journey.
Thor TDW: For my swords and sorcery fix.
I haven't watched an Avengers' movie all the way through in years. Just the various action scenes from time to time.
GOTG for my space scifi, when I don't feel like rewatching Trek or Star Wars.

Things like IM 2-3, Ant-Man, Thor 1, Incredible Hulk, The First Avenger collect dust on my shelf. When Dr Strange comes out, I think I'd rewatch that one a lot for the visuals.

 

[Mage]

I was referring to the house style Marvel Studios has. The films themselves are diverse, yes. For me however, I find myself only watching a select few of them from time to time.

Captain America TWS: For my James Bond/Mission Impossible thriller.
Iron Man 1: For my scifi hero's journey.
Thor TDW: For my swords and sorcery fix.
I haven't watched an Avengers' movie all the way through in years. Just the various action scenes from time to time.
GOTG for my space scifi, when I don't feel like rewatching Trek or Star Wars.

Things like IM 2-3, Ant-Man, Thor 1, Incredible Hulk, The First Avenger collect dust on my shelf. When Dr Strange comes out, I think I'd rewatch that one a lot for the visuals.

Ah, like so. I agree with some parts of this, and disagree with others. I agree that the several subfranchices fall into a certain style. However, some of the movies you mentioned I actually love to rewatch for their own reasons. But as I stated earlier, that's simply because if personal opinion. Iron Man 3, for example, I love. Not just because of the movie itself, but I have anxiety-based OCD, so seeing a superhero with basicly that, was pretty potent for me.

 

[Anwar]

It's a tough situation. The DCEU movies get remembered and constantly debated for being divisive. The MCU movies are mostly flash in the pan, because so many come out back to back and have formula that makes them all look and feel the same.

Ah yes, the elusive Marvel "Formula" no one can ever really define...

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Ah yes, the elusive Marvel "Formula" no one can ever really define...

Trade secret, mate. If everyone knew the secret, every other studio would be doing it.
See:
Sony: TASM 2 with Peter's mile a minute one-liners but nobody cares.
Fox: X-Men Apocalypse tried to xerox the MCU style for their movie and it fell flat.
WB and Paramount: Both tried to emulate GOTG for their films, Suicide Squad and Star Trek Beyond respectively.

I could try to define it, but with 14 films in the MCU now, I think everyone can see the overlap and similarities most films have.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

WB and Paramount: Both tried to emulate GOTG for their films, Suicide Squad and Star Trek Beyond respectively.

Yeah, but critics ratings aside Suicide Squad was a success.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Yeah, but critics ratings aside Suicide Squad was a success.

I know, and Beyond wasn't. And it rips me up inside that Beyond didn't perform better. Beyond is the highest grossing film from Paramount this year at $343 million worldwide, and it could've easily done $500-600 million I think. Idk what happened, but people didn't go see Paramount's movies this year.

 

[fireproof78]

Trade secret, mate. If everyone knew the secret, every other studio would be doing it.
See:
Sony: TASM 2 with Peter's mile a minute one-liners but nobody cares.
Fox: X-Men Apocalypse tried to xerox the MCU style for their movie and it fell flat.
WB and Paramount: Both tried to emulate GOTG for their films, Suicide Squad and Star Trek Beyond respectively.

I could try to define it, but with 14 films in the MCU now, I think everyone can see the overlap and similarities most films have.

I think the MCU feeds in to a bigger picture. Marvel has basically set up what films are coming out when, regardless of success or failure. In many ways, they are treating their films as comic books, with different heroes and different powers. "Oh, you didn't like this hero. Well, next time it's That Hero!"

Other studios are basically trying to one shot it, without the chemistry or larger picture to inform them.

The Marvel formula works quite well, I would say.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I know, and Beyond wasn't. And it rips me up inside that Beyond didn't perform better. Beyond is the highest grossing film from Paramount this year at $343 million worldwide, and it could've easily done $500-600 million I think. Idk what happened, but people didn't go see Paramount's movies this year.

Well it was a crowded summer this year.

 

[Christopher]

Trade secret, mate. If everyone knew the secret, every other studio would be doing it.
See:
Sony: TASM 2 with Peter's mile a minute one-liners but nobody cares.
Fox: X-Men Apocalypse tried to xerox the MCU style for their movie and it fell flat.
WB and Paramount: Both tried to emulate GOTG for their films, Suicide Squad and Star Trek Beyond respectively.

There is no secret formula. There's just doing good work. This is what Hollywood always gets wrong. If a film does well, they try to imitate its form or its subject matter or its style, but they're missing the point. A film does well because it's made well. Try to copy it with less care and quality and the result won't be as good. Indeed, if you feel you have to copy something else at all, that shows a lack of faith in what you can do on your own, and that's the root of the problem.

And that's why I don't think Star Trek Beyond belongs on this list. Whatever Paramount may have wanted for the film, its own makers were just trying to tell a good Star Trek story, and it actually worked pretty well.

As for Amazing Spider-Man 2, I still say it's the most perfect live-action portrayal of Spider-Man as a character that we've ever gotten; it just screwed up everything besides Spidey/Peter, Gwen, and Aunt May.

 

[fireproof78]

There is no secret formula. There's just doing good work. This is what Hollywood always gets wrong. If a film does well, they try to imitate its form or its subject matter or its style, but they're missing the point. A film does well because it's made well. Try to copy it with less care and quality and the result won't be as good. Indeed, if you feel you have to copy something else at all, that shows a lack of faith in what you can do on your own, and that's the root of the problem.

And that's why I don't think Star Trek Beyond belongs on this list. Whatever Paramount may have wanted for the film, its own makers were just trying to tell a good Star Trek story, and it actually worked pretty well.

As for Amazing Spider-Man 2, I still say it's the most perfect live-action portrayal of Spider-Man as a character that we've ever gotten; it just screwed up everything besides Spidey/Peter, Gwen, and Aunt May.

I thought Amazing Spider-Man 2 was well done right up until the Green Goblin bit. As much as I like Harry and the conflict introduced, it just didn't mesh with the rest of the film as well as it could have.

As to the rest of your post, I'm waiting for the inevitable Transformers counterargument.

 

[Anwar]

Trade secret, mate. If everyone knew the secret, every other studio would be doing it.
See:
Sony: TASM 2 with Peter's mile a minute one-liners but nobody cares.

Everything else in the film sadly dragged down Garfield's performance. They jumped the gun and crammed too much in there.

Fox: X-Men Apocalypse tried to xerox the MCU style for their movie and it fell flat.

It's more that SINGER'S formula is finally being seen for the stale thing it is. He doesn't know how to shake it up and develop the storyline beyond what he did in the first X-Men movie.

WB and Paramount: Both tried to emulate GOTG for their films, Suicide Squad and Star Trek Beyond respectively.

I don't get why Beyond didn't do better.

I could try to define it, but with 14 films in the MCU now, I think everyone can see the overlap and similarities most films have.

Aside from being utterly unashamed and focusing on creating good heroes rather than letting the villains steal the show (the cheap way out), I don't see it.

 

[fireproof78]

Aside from being utterly unashamed and focusing on creating good heroes rather than letting the villains steal the show (the cheap way out), I don't see it.

I think the "Marvel Formula" is more of a Marvel World Building. It all feels like it is grouped together, and very much like the comics. If one doesn't do well as the box office, oh well, move on. Versus Paramount who sees to hang so much on specific films and then seems to get more gun shy with poor performance.

 

[LJones41]

Just like MOS. People were debating that movie right up till BvS came out.

It's a tough situation. The DCEU movies get remembered and constantly debated for being divisive. The MCU movies are mostly flash in the pan, because so many come out back to back and have formula that makes them all look and feel the same. The XCU movies inspire no discussions and are forgotten as soon as they're out of theaters. Sony's plan for a Spider-Man shared universe died before it even got off the ground.

I wouldn't describe the MCU films as "flash in the pan". Nor would I describe them or the three DCEU movies so far as formulaic.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I wouldn't describe the MCU films as "flash in the pan". Nor would I describe them or the three DCEU movies so far as formulaic.

Well, Disney releases 2 films every year for the past several years, and when they're out of theaters, we're all anticipating the next one.

We just had Dr Strange, and now people are anticipating GOTG 2 and Spider-Man Homecoming. Dr Strange is kind of yesterday's news. Last year when Ant-Man came out, how long did that stay on the public conscious? Thor 2 entertained people for all of 2 months, until people were jazzed for the Captain America TWS and after that one was GOTG. Thor 1 was important, but between it and Avengers was Captain America TFA. Which at the time, most people treated as a prologue to the big summer movie everyone wanted to see in 2012. Etc etc. Just what happens when you have a high volume of releases each year. Marvel moving to 3 films a year in 2017 through 2020, will further exacerbate things.

 

[Skywalker]

I don't think that's really because the movies are forgettable, but because by now people know that the MCU is an ongoing story in which each movie plays a part in some form or another, so once one movie's over we're anxiously awaiting the next one. It's like being excited to see next week's episode of your favorite TV series.

 

[BJ Wagner]

I'd have to agree that the Marvel movies are, for the most part, very forgettable precisely because they are so similar and all smaller parts of a larger narrative. I sometimes forget I've even seen one by the time the Blu-ray comes out. But who can argue with their success? Take a look at the top 20 film grosses of the year and it's no wonder every third movie released is a comic book adaptation.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I sometimes forget I've even seen one by the time the Blu-ray comes out.

That sounds more like a bad memory than a problem with the movie. I have a crappy memory but can remember what movies I've seen in the theatre for the past few decades. Good, bad, or bland.

 

[BJ Wagner]

That sounds more like a bad memory than a problem with the movie. I have a crappy memory but can remember what movies I've seen in the theatre for the past few decades. Good, bad, or bland.

My memory is just fine. If I find a film so vanilla and forgettable because it's plot was so derivative of the last few, that's my problem for choosing to go see it.

 

[JD]

I don't think that's really because the movies are forgettable, but because by now people know that the MCU is an ongoing story in which each movie plays a part in some form or another, so once one movie's over we're anxiously awaiting the next one. It's like being excited to see next week's episode of your favorite TV series.

I was just about to say this.
Marvel also tends to promote these things in groups, with them being announced in 3 or four at a time and the promotion for the next one starting pretty much as soon as the current one is in theaters. So it's not that people didn't like the current one, it's just that the promotion for the next gets people so excited they focus on it instead.

 

[Anwar]

My memory is just fine. If I find a film so vanilla and forgettable because it's plot was so derivative of the last few, that's my problem for choosing to go see it.

You dislike James Bond too?