I'm not convinced he ever put $150K of his personal money into anything. This amount has grown and grown with each retelling of this sorry story. Show me the cancelled checks and bank statements.
CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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You don't believe an honest businessman and filmmaker?
I'm willing to believe he's put a degree of his own money into things, but to my mind that claim is also disingenuous on his part since it seems obvious that it was a reaction to having blown all the donor money and suddenly realising he needed to cover the rent on the studio (witness the fire sales of his DVDs on the donor store or the sudden prop auctions). It definitely comes across as a reaction to his salary becoming public, the criticism that was levelled at him over it and the eventual lawsuit citing personal financial gain.
I don't for any second you can equate it to the other fan productions putting their money into their projects. Much more it's Alec trying to save himself from the lawsuit and a hacked off warehouse owner looking for the rent.
Without any kind of legal or financial training, I still remain very dubious over how the Propworx auction takings (clearly a large part of this alleged $150k) can be funnelled directly into Axanar. Coupled with no apparent paper trail showing Propworx paying rent, can two companies really co-exist like that? It seems like something the taxman would take a long hard look at.
Similarly whatever happened to those secret investors? Again it now seems clear that was smoke and mirrors to try and settle a donor-base becoming increasingly aware of how the money had been mismanaged.
Finally I really identify with @Tom's point about filming off the first Kickstarter. As a repeat backer of the project I can remember when the Indiegogo launched talking with a friend and discussing how disappointing it was that there had been zero footage shot in the studio on the sets after the money that had been raised. A scene set on even a partially completed bridge set (enough to convince from certain angles) would've shown a lot more promise than the car park based walk-and-talk that was a real warning sign for the backers (although I freely admit I was still a mug and threw in a third time despite the warning bells starting to sound in my head).
I don't for any second you can equate it to the other fan productions putting their money into their projects. Much more it's Alec trying to save himself from the lawsuit and a hacked off warehouse owner looking for the rent.
Without any kind of legal or financial training, I still remain very dubious over how the Propworx auction takings (clearly a large part of this alleged $150k) can be funnelled directly into Axanar. Coupled with no apparent paper trail showing Propworx paying rent, can two companies really co-exist like that? It seems like something the taxman would take a long hard look at.
Similarly whatever happened to those secret investors? Again it now seems clear that was smoke and mirrors to try and settle a donor-base becoming increasingly aware of how the money had been mismanaged.
Finally I really identify with @Tom's point about filming off the first Kickstarter. As a repeat backer of the project I can remember when the Indiegogo launched talking with a friend and discussing how disappointing it was that there had been zero footage shot in the studio on the sets after the money that had been raised. A scene set on even a partially completed bridge set (enough to convince from certain angles) would've shown a lot more promise than the car park based walk-and-talk that was a real warning sign for the backers (although I freely admit I was still a mug and threw in a third time despite the warning bells starting to sound in my head).
Arrested burglar to victim: but last night I had someone put your stuff back! How can you say it ever happened?
There is no reason.
Absolutely. As I said before, show the records and timing wrt/ deposits and withdrawals of this personal cashflow through Axanar.
Pansed, he is.
By saying he put 150k in he is inviting an examination of the cashflows. Typical, go for the short term gain and say you'll find a way to fix the repercussions tomorrow. Good luck explaining to the IRS untracked large cashflows through multiple corporations and drawn out as salaries and benefits.
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I guess the better question is 'when' this happened. Looking at Dennis's post. it was presumably done this past year. So it looks like he was paying back the money he stole from donors. If he was not in a lawsuit and under intense scrutiny would he have done this? I doubt it. Sorry Alec, its to late to cover up your past actions, it's all a part of record now. Stealing is stealing, the fact that you are paying it back now is irrelevant. Also, the reason you presumably have the money to put back into Axanar is because of things you used the donor money to pay for that freed up 'your' money, seems a bit circular doesn't it.
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It is not the intent of the Axanar team to make one dime off of the studio.
- Oh, please. Like your readers aren't smarter than you.
We are still filing for 501c3.
- Be sure to show your history of operating with nonprofit intent and operating norms and public interest goals, its crucial for existing corporations to qualify. Hint: not a chance.
We are creating an Independent Financial Review Committee to examine ourselves.
- No, ask the California AG to create the committee. Stop with creating your own independent anything, you've burnt that shtick to the ground.
We don't want to disappoint the tens of thousands of donors.
- So now its multiple 10's?
- Oh, please. Like your readers aren't smarter than you.
We are still filing for 501c3.
- Be sure to show your history of operating with nonprofit intent and operating norms and public interest goals, its crucial for existing corporations to qualify. Hint: not a chance.
We are creating an Independent Financial Review Committee to examine ourselves.
- No, ask the California AG to create the committee. Stop with creating your own independent anything, you've burnt that shtick to the ground.
We don't want to disappoint the tens of thousands of donors.
- So now its multiple 10's?
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That is certainly quicker than trawling through this thread if anybody feels in need of a catch-up.
Since I'm a KS Backer - I just posted the following comment to that page:
Armsman 3 minutes ago
Axanar Productions 3-time creator about 1 hour ago
Now, if any of you half a dozen donors who keep posting nonsense and lies actually READ this, then I will reply to legitimate comments. Otherwise, expect to get ignored.
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^^^
If we're the ones posting "nonsense and lies" - WHY is your legal team sop adamant about redacting the financial data and testimony about WHERE THE FUNDS FOR AXANAR PLEDGED BY BACKERS TO AXANAR WENT?
Again yes, I believe someone is posting A LOT of "nonsense and lies"; but it isn't ANY of the Backers requesting a refund on here. You guys already claimed an accountant looked at your books. POST that accounting (or tell your legal team they can release the info publically.
As for the 501c3 filing you have been claiming that's 'in process' FOR OVER A YEAR - yet no progress on that - just more of the same BS. For all your constant claims of 'transparency' ALL you do is shovel more BS out the door.
Also, I love how you still claim 'Alec is working on Axanar'...yeah, right. That ship has sailed and you know it. Anyone who believes Alec is still working on Axanar; please send me some of what your smoking because it MUST be some really good s**t (unlike the volumes of s**t Alec Peters continues to post here.)
Truthfully, I wish you WOULD start ignoring posts here so people could read from we idiot Backers who pledged money for this debacle to disclose how big of a liar and GRIFTER you truly are (and probably have been even BEFORE your Propworx bankruptcy where you left MGM and plenty of others 'holding the bag' and as usual placing blame on EVERYTHING/EVERYONE else EXCEPT YOURSELF -- which is where I'm certain the MAJORITY of the blame lies.
I know my Pledge is gone, isn't going to be returned in whole or in part - and most likely went towards Sushi or some other ridiculous personal expense. But the one thing my Pledge does is allows me to comment on the stuff you post here - so hopefully if you or your surrogates try something like this again; you won't get the public pledging money for a project that goes instead toward personal expenses; or for some other ridiculous profiteering scheme.
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The answer to that is pretty obvious. Look, not everything here is an example of Peters being a douche, and I think sometimes some of you get a little too carried away in trying to find wrongdoing in every single thing he's done.
The most likely explanation is that he needed to keep the project afloat and was running out of donor surplus to do it with, irrespective of the manner in which he spent those funds. So he started putting in his own money. I expect it's no more complicated than that.
1) Whoa. What a sacrifice..... He put his OWN money into the project? Well give that man a Nobel Fan Prize! Right Now! Not for nothing, I would like to point out that we are in the 11th month, and as Alec has been paying the rent for 6 months - that means the production ran out of cash in April/May, which IIRC was when Alec was offering Terry "stock" in lieu of payment for Ares Digital.
2) Alec took the money out, used if for his personal expenses, and then "put it back?" LOLOLOLOLOL.
That's lovely. So, if we believe point #1 - then approximately $150k was "borrowed" from Axanar to pay for Alec's expenses, which of course means that he hasn't "put a dime" of his own money into the project, he has simply returned the donor's funds - AFTER it came out that he was using it for personal expenses.
3) By my count this the fifth time he has promised that an accountant is/will be/has reviewed the financials. I imagine THIS accountant was supplied by W&S to determine EXACTLY how much money they won't be getting from him and to give him a chance to pretend all his willy-nilly spending was legit -otherwise Mr. Broke Peters couldn't afford the cost of the "review". Notice that the results of this "review" won't be made public.
4) An "Independent Review Board"?
Well, I guess he has to give Britto, Slow Lane, and his Atlanta attorney buddy SOMETHING to do. You can expect their review to be released at or about the same time as Axanar VI: The Wrath of Kharn.5) Chuckle. Talk about closing the barn door after the targ has left. Of course, please note this is the SIXTH time Alec has claimed the 501(c)3 filing is in progress/has/started/is nearing completion.
6) Axanar hasn't made a dime off the studio because you CAN'T RENT IT OUT YET!! It doesn't meet code, doesn't have AC, doesn't have easily accessible bathrooms, and is currently full of junk. Of course, this is also a tacit admittance that Propworx DOESN'T pay rent to Axanar for its office space - a claim he has made multiple times.
What a giant lying sleazebag this guy is...
ETA:
From the Plaintiff's response to Defense Interrogatory number 8 (INTERROGATORY NO.8: Identiff and describe the harm or injury You claim to have suffered as a result of Defendants' actions as alleged in the FAC.)
Mr. Peters personally profited from Plaintiffs' intellectual property by paying himself with funds raised from consumers of Plaintiffs' intellectual property and by spending tens of thousands of dollars of those funds on his own personal expenses. Mr. Peters used fan-raised funds to pay for the tires on his Lexus, to service his car, to pay for his gas, each and every week for nearly two years, to pay for his girlfriend's gas for the same time period, to pay for two years of personal phone bills for himself, his girlfriend and Robert Meyer Burnett, to pay for his health insurance, his car insurance, his annual A,Al{ memberships, his TSA airport precheck fee, and his personal travel to conventions, both in the United States and internationally. Mr. Peters also used these funds to pay for tens of thousands of dollars in restaurant meals. Mr. Peters and his girlfriend were provided with debit cards that they used to pay for these expenses from the Axanar Productions account - which account was populated with funds contributed by Star Trek fans. Further, Mr. Peters' company, Propwon<, is housed in the studio facility that was rented and built out using funds from Star Trek fans. Propworx has not paid any rent to Axanar Productions for its use of this facility.......
It is unclear from Mr. Peters' discovery responses and documents produced to date how much of those funds were used to pay himself, but Paramount is entitled to recover, as profits relating to the infringing activity, all of those funds, including the amounts paid to Mr, Peters, his girlfriend, and for his travel, gas, meals, tires and other personal expenses as listed on Bates Nos. AX 30915-31L29.
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But the project still has money if he hadn't been paying himself, others and personal expenses.
Given what is in the oral evidence that's very close to being a lie and Peters would be best advise to go on lockdown for the rest of the case. He's doing himself no favours by continuing his self appointed mission to defeat "the haters".
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That doesn't CHANGE the fact that he USED BACKER FUNDS for personal expenses. <---- That's a FACT. The money raised via pledges was supposed to go for FULL PRODUCTION of a single Star Trek film (I won't say 'fan film' because the intent to make a 'fan film' disappeared a LONG time ago). It was NOT supposed to go to support his OTHER business venture (aka Propworx); NOR to allow him to try a start ANTOTHER business venture (Industry Studios.)
Alec Peters USED funds for purposes OTHER THAN WHAT BACKERS INTENDED. IDK if that can legally be called Fruad with the lack of Crowdfunding legislation on the books, but to try and spin it as -
"Well he was REALLY just trying to make his Star Trek film..."
at this point is ludicrous.
You aren't in a position to determine that because you have no idea what the projected costs were. In fact, neither did Peters because he didn't know when the trial was going to be listed through much of the early stages of the litigation, and he didn't know when the project would ultimately be completed through much of the production period - not least because such a production is not static, it's organic.
Look, I think it's pretty clear what I think of Peters, but not every single move he has made is evidence of him being the sperm of the devil. I'm trying to be a voice of reason and fairness...and yeah, that means Peters is entitled to fairness when it warrants it (which isn't often!).
Way ahead of you.4) An "Independent Review Board"?
Also, did someone say, "Cash"?1) Whoa. What a sacrifice..... He put his OWN money into the project? Well give that man a Nobel Fan Prize! Right Now! Not for nothing, I would like to point out that we are in the 11th month, and as Alec has been paying the rent for 6 months - that means the production ran out of cash in April/May, which IIRC was when Alec was offering Terry "stock" in lieu of payment for Ares Digital.
Neil
Do you presume I don't know any of that? Calm yourself. Your use of capitals is patronising.
The question posed enquired as to why he needed funds when he had already gotten a large amount. I gave a speculative opinion why...an opinion which is unaltered by his unethical use of donor funds.
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