Contest: VOTE How long will you give Chibnall?
- Thread starter Starkers
- Start date
If you go on gallifreybase you'll see that the bottom three options are actually the most popular at the moment 
I voted for a year. But I think I'm a bit more nuanced than that.
Chibnall comes in with a bit of goodwill with me. I've generally enjoyed his Doctor Who work ("The Power of Three," the unfilmed "P.S.," I even really like the Silurian two-parter back in series 5), and until it goes off the rails in the last twenty minutes the first series of Torchwood is amazing. (I prefer the nihilism of the first series to the more assured second series, and by a not inconsiderable margin.) Broadchurch, the first series anyway, is really well done. So I know he can do it, and I'm encouraged that Chibnall will employ a writers room; that indicates an awareness that modern television drama requires a more collaborative process because there are a lot more moving gears.
But Moffat also entered with a lot of goodwill from me. He had his acclaimed stories for the RTD era, which I loved (though i'm not sure that "Blink" holds up), and he had Jekyll, to say nothing of his earlier work like Coupling. I thought his first series was very good; I can pick niggles here and there, but overall, even now, I don't have any major complaints. And that increased my expectations for series 6, only I realized that Moffat had shown us his bag of tricks and, worse, he didn't know how to pay off his stories.
So, for me, the question is, "How deep is Chris Chibnall's bag of tricks?" And I don't know the answer to that. We could find out five episodes in -- or twenty-five. Or never.
Chibnall comes in with a bit of goodwill with me. I've generally enjoyed his Doctor Who work ("The Power of Three," the unfilmed "P.S.," I even really like the Silurian two-parter back in series 5), and until it goes off the rails in the last twenty minutes the first series of Torchwood is amazing. (I prefer the nihilism of the first series to the more assured second series, and by a not inconsiderable margin.) Broadchurch, the first series anyway, is really well done. So I know he can do it, and I'm encouraged that Chibnall will employ a writers room; that indicates an awareness that modern television drama requires a more collaborative process because there are a lot more moving gears.
But Moffat also entered with a lot of goodwill from me. He had his acclaimed stories for the RTD era, which I loved (though i'm not sure that "Blink" holds up), and he had Jekyll, to say nothing of his earlier work like Coupling. I thought his first series was very good; I can pick niggles here and there, but overall, even now, I don't have any major complaints. And that increased my expectations for series 6, only I realized that Moffat had shown us his bag of tricks and, worse, he didn't know how to pay off his stories.
So, for me, the question is, "How deep is Chris Chibnall's bag of tricks?" And I don't know the answer to that. We could find out five episodes in -- or twenty-five. Or never.
I've never understood the Chibnall hate. While his Doctor Who episodes haven't been the greatest, they haven't been awful either, and Torchwood season 2 did some great character stuff. I'll give Chibnall until his second year anyway, that seems enough to determine whether or not he can handle the show or if he's just going to rely on the same tired old tropes.
But really, I already fucking hate Chibnall's run as showrunner and BBC would be wise to replace him and forget this misfire chapter of the franchise.
On a similar note, back in 2008 when it was announced Moffat would take over, I accurately predicted how fandom would be acting towards him in 2010:
But really, I already fucking hate Chibnall's run as showrunner and BBC would be wise to replace him and forget this misfire chapter of the franchise.
On a similar note, back in 2008 when it was announced Moffat would take over, I accurately predicted how fandom would be acting towards him in 2010:
I voted that I'll give him until the end of the first season. But, really, whether I like it or not I'll keep watching, because I'm a fan of the show. If Series 8 didn't make me quit the show, nothing Chibnall might do could 
That said, I think he's going to do a good job. Torchwood was atrocious but I blame RTD more for that, and Chibnall's Dpctpr Who episodes weren't the greatest but they were usually ok. I'm hopeful and expecting him to at least do an ok job.
That said, I think he's going to do a good job. Torchwood was atrocious but I blame RTD more for that, and Chibnall's Dpctpr Who episodes weren't the greatest but they were usually ok. I'm hopeful and expecting him to at least do an ok job.
What is there to blame RTD for? Chibnall did the day-to-day running of the show for the first two seasons. Aside from creating the concept, RTD's input on the first season was just writing the first episode, and he had no real input on the second. RTD was heavily involved with Children of Earth (which is generally highly regarded) and Miracle Day (which you can blame him for).
Oh, ok. Well, now I want to change my vote. The parts of Torchwood I could stomach trying to watch were some of the worst television I've ever seen. The pilot and Cyberwoman alone should have resulted in every single person on the show, from writers to actors to the person getting John Barrowman coffee, being blacklisted from every working in television again. Series 2 was just as bad if not worse, although I say that after not even being able to stomach all of the first episode of Torchwood Series 2. If that was Chibnall, when I assumed it was RTD, then subtract one vote from the top option in this thread.
Also, all I know about the next two seasons is that one is morally reprehensible and basically ruins Jack Harkness as a character (Children of the Earth) and the other one is somehow hated more then the first two seasons (Miracle Day). So, yeah, RTD did the more morally offensive stuff, and Chibnall did the "14 year old writing an "adult" show" stuff. All things being equal RTD made the worse stuff, but my loathing of teenage boy style sex stuff "adult" television puts Chibnall at almost the same level. Except Chibnall is an immature idiot and RTD was just writing grim and gritty trash. I honestly don't know which approach I hate more, but I've definitely lost a lot of my hope for Doctor Who with this reveal. But, as long as the BBC hold Chibnall's reigns tightly and don't allow him to do stupid shit like put the Cyberpeople in "sexy" outfits again or make everyone constantly screw/want to screw/try to screw each other, Series 11 will probably still be better then what Moffat has been doing. I just hope Chibnall doesn't start hiring Torchwood writers.
8 out of the 15 writers who contributed to Torchwood's first two seasons (and that includes RTD and Chibnall) have already contributed to Doctor Who, both under RTD and Moffat.
Let's see how that worked out:
RTD & Chibnall - Obvious
James Moran - Wrote The Fires of Pompeii, which I thought sucked but seems at least somewhat popular.
Phil Ford - Co-Wrote a good episode (The Waters of mars) and an ok episode (Into the Dalek). Depending on how much of those episodes he wrote, he seems like he might be an ok writer.
Matt Jones - Wrote the very mediocre The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit
Helen Raynor - Wrote Daleks in manhatten/Evolution of the Daleks, which were terrible, and the mediocre Sonatarn two-parter. This is definitely someone I'm not surprised wrote episodes of Torchwood.
Toby Whithouse - Wrote some good Doctor Who episodes, and Vampires in Venice.
Catherine Treganna - Wrote The Woman Who Lived
So, not quite the train wreck I expected, but then again I think RTD did great things on Doctor Who but still did nothing right with Torchwood right from the premise. Of those Torchwood writers, Whithouse is the only one I'd be fine with seeing more Doctor Who episodes from. At this point, I wouldn't even want to see another RTD episode, and Cyberwoman alone makes a compelling case for banning Chibnall from writing anything ever again.
But, he did manage to make Broadchurch without adding any of his signature 13 year old style trash, and he was able to make competent Doctor Who episodes, so I'm not giving up all hope. Plus, at this point Moffat just needs to leave so anyone who doesn't outright hate Doctor Who would probably be an improvement. I just wish they could have gotten someone who hadn't been in charge of/written so much crap.
I'm willing to give Chibnall at least a season, but like Allyn, I think there's more than just giving him enough time. It's a matter of how he handles the mechanics of the show. Ranging from the overall planning and the study of minute tohow much he works on other people's scripts (Davies and Moffatt varied on that last part).
Chibnall also comes with some goodwill for me. Not just the goods scripts for Torchwood and Doctor Who, but also his scripts for Life on Mars and Law & Order: UK. I haven't seen Broadchurch yet (it's on my long list) but I've heard largely great things about it. Really, only "Cyberwoman" and "Countrycide" were real clunkers for me and everyone has a bad script or two.
On the flip side, I was one of Moffatt's biggest cheerleaders and I've turned on him somewhat, but certainly not as rabidly as some fans. Or even to the level I was against Davies, which I've tamed out on in retrospect.
Chibnall also comes with some goodwill for me. Not just the goods scripts for Torchwood and Doctor Who, but also his scripts for Life on Mars and Law & Order: UK. I haven't seen Broadchurch yet (it's on my long list) but I've heard largely great things about it. Really, only "Cyberwoman" and "Countrycide" were real clunkers for me and everyone has a bad script or two.
I think it largely stems from "Cyberwoman," and to a lesser extent, "Countrycide." Fans can be very unforgiving.
Yeah, I remember you and Starkers in particular pointed out that fans would eventually turn on Moffatt, and while I admit I was somewhat in denial on that point, I did see the reason behind it so it wasn't much of a surprise for me when they did.
On the flip side, I was one of Moffatt's biggest cheerleaders and I've turned on him somewhat, but certainly not as rabidly as some fans. Or even to the level I was against Davies, which I've tamed out on in retrospect.
If his first episode isn't an instant classic, I'm out!
IMO, Cyberwoman doesn't deserve the hate it gets. Granted, the Cyberwoman costume is awful and embarrassing but the episode itself is solid entertainment and one of the better episodes of Torchwood season 1 (interpret that how you will).I think it largely stems from "Cyberwoman," and to a lesser extent, "Countrycide." Fans can be very unforgiving.
Countrycide, I'll give points for trying to be different. I understand why some have frustrations with it, it really isn't a sci-fi story at all when they were expecting sci-fi. If anything, the fact Chibnall did this episode makes me hopeful that maybe when he's running Doctor Who we might get an actual historical.
I voted for until the end of the first series, but I imagine I'll start judging him instantly, I'll probably get a fairly balanced opinion half way through his first series.
I think that's a very good point. Personally I think however good a writer you are your bag of tricks is finite. Yes Moffat has familiar tropes but so did RTD. I think what the era of both men proves is that a show runner tenure should be preferably short. By the end of series 4 I thought RTD Who had become very predictable (which doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it, hell it has the best modern companion!) and even as a fan of Moffat he's clearly been doing the job way too long (though now at least we do know this is less his decision than the beebs) so I do think the BBC need to limit Chibnall's run to 4 or 5 years (always assuming it isn't so terrible they need to cut and run after 2 seasons or something). Of course if Chibnall does utilise a writers room this might extend things somewhat, but really I don't care who you are, there's a limit to how many different stories you can tell.
A new flavour of Who is like a new flavour of ice cream. I think most of us will be there, despite claims to the contrary.
I'm not alll that concerned about the change of showrunner. The presumed change of lead writer and script editor, though, might be a different matter. I imagine that there'll be less wit and more pathos; hopefully he'll strike a good balance and bring his own authorial voice.
I'm not alll that concerned about the change of showrunner. The presumed change of lead writer and script editor, though, might be a different matter. I imagine that there'll be less wit and more pathos; hopefully he'll strike a good balance and bring his own authorial voice.
I've been meaning to go back to those two episodes since listening to the Big Finish Torchwood audio Broken, which follows Ianto between episodes of the first series. It creates a remarkably strong and effective story by giving Ianto realistic reactions to the events of those episodes.
As for Chibnall... Everything really comes together in the first series of Broachurch: the casting, the location, the story, the writing. It works. The second series was weaker and didn't really know what story it was trying to tell. As for Torchwood, well, I do think RTD's Children of Earth was the peak of that show, but I liked the first two seasons, too.
If I've got one wish for Chibnall's era of Doctor Who, it's that he learns from the Moffat era not to do any big arcs. RTD's Bad Wolf and Torchwood arcs were simple and subtle. They paid off in the end but weren't too important along the way. Moffat came up with big, intrusive arcs that came with big, messy payoffs. They were like drawn-out Brannon Braga Star Trek weird shit episodes: come up with something crazy then work backwards from that, creating a story that doesn't actually make much sense when you think about it. I'd be happier with a bunch of good standalone episodes.
