What post-Nemesis Trek SHOULD be like
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
How is Star Trek not "procedural?" A problem is introduced, the crew works it and there is a solution The basic definition of procedural.
By that definition, every show on television ever is procedural. The way you've framed this up, by your own admission at its most basic definition, makes it kind of a moot argument.
I'm talking about common, cookie-cutter plot lines or themes that are common to many other shows and genres in television.
"War" and "politics" is about as cookie cutter and common (as opposed to "exploration and adventure") as it gets on television, regardless of how it's dressed up (modern day, sci-fi, fantasy, etc). Only thing worse are medical dramas, investigation dramas, and law enforcement dramas.
Then what's the weekly "hook" going to be?
42 minutes of routine scanner results? Quietly collecting botanical and mineral samples? Peaceful diplomatic receptions? Uneventfully conveying cargo from one utopian planet to another?
And similar wild excitement.
Because there can't be war (or any combat?), nothing political, no medical situations (dramas), no criminal investigation dramas, or no law enforcement duties. I take it there won't be any court room dramas either.
You actually not leaving very much to build a episode around.
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I'm at a loss as to how extreme you've chosen to interpret my position, all for the sake of picking an argument.
I never, anywhere, at any time said "no episodes about combat or politics," and it's asinine to interpret my position (again, in a ridiculous, argumentative extreme twisting of my position) that I'd prefer a show littered with episodes about doing laboratory experiments. Enough already.
My favorite episodes and movies from the franchise often have battle scenes or elements of politcs stuff / world building. That said, the BASIS for the show should be the adventures associated with exploring space. It should not be "Game of Thrones " in space or whatever other tired, fanwanky premise people clamor for. Get back to a weekly adventure of exploration and discovery with an over-arching mystery or other kind of arc to keep viewers interested in coming back to a larger story each week. I just think the premise of "war" or "political intrigue" to facilitate the drama and conflict necessary for any good show is lazy, unnecessary and weak in the Trek universe. There are other, far more creative ways to generate conflict and have a complicated ongoing arc than these cliched tropes.
What I'm saying is that the basis and set-up for the entire run of the show shouldn't be "starfleet at war" nor should it be "alpha quadrant in turmoil."
Now, is this in any way unclear, or are you miraculously going to flip this into an excuse to argue again by saying that I want a show based on 60 minutes of staff meetings and star mapping?
It is your position.
Personally I want the things that you called "dime a dozen." While I don't want the show to focus on multi-season or full season wars (DS9 and ENT), part of Starfleet job is as the Federation warriors. So I fully expect to see combat and references to wars.
Ensigns of Command had Picard come up with a great legal solution to the Shellak problem.
The occasional medical quandary, maybe as the episode's B-story, good.
Mudd's Women was a interesting crime story.
And I see no problem with drama, we're watching people live their lives aboard the ship, let them have lives (drama).
That exploration would be the framing story to a episode is fine, but exploration in of itself can't be the meat of the episode, something unusal has to happen.
Talking right past each other at warp speed. I'm not sure you understood anything I typed.
tl:dr: Some people want combat and war and some people don't.
Perhaps, can you explain how you would find a subject matter disagreeable, yet still somehow want it on the show?
Today I had an idea for an Elite Force-style show, which could focus on a ship designed specifically to combat enemies that fall outside of the Federation's normal diplomatic channels, such as being an anti-Borg taskforce. The Prime Directive would still be in effect, as it would not get involved with issues like civil wars, but it would patrol the far regions of the galaxy taking the fight to known enemies. Not outright offensives, but a show of strength, as well as engaging in humanitarian work. I imagine the ship being fast and tough, looking something like the vessel seen at the bottom of the middle column of this work:
Maybe the series could be called Star Trek: Guardian.
Maybe the series could be called Star Trek: Guardian.
I kind of like this concept.
Why does it have to be like that?
It doesn't, that's my point. But the poster specifically said "Elite force inspired" and posted a load of ugly battleships. I don't see much potential for that.
I like this idea too. The only real problem I would have with it is I don't want a "single subject" Star Trek series, but instead a series that has a wide (wide as possible) variety of episode topics.
This theme would be good for a discussion on the morality of pro-active defense, and pre-emptive strikes. Do you wait until a attack on your civilian population is emanate? Or do you have your military act to prevent a possible attack by a state that isn't yet a aggressor?
I have no problem with any of the displayed ship designs, although personally I would prefer a medium to small ship with maybe sixty odd people on the crew.
Why not, is my curiosity? Ship designs are changeable, and Elite Force was a Star Trek-esque special forces team, akin to a SEAL team for Starfleet. Why not try to draw in the younger demographic?
I mean, Stargate, the movie, took a fairly thin premise, inserted soldiers and aliens, and was off. It inspired a TV series that included two soldiers, a physicist and an archeologist. Not only were they doing battle with aliens, but their flagship team, SG-1, also served as diplomats and first contact with a wide variety of other races.
My point being is that the source material doesn't have to be the end. I personally like the idea of a special forces type team (not just combat oriented, mind you) that is the focus of the show, and not the Captain, First Officer, doctor teams that we normally get.
Those ship designs aren't set in stone in my mind, just ideas. I'd love to see a Dauntless-type ship be used; lean and mean (but with twin nacelles of course). As to the overall premise, I don't want ST to drift too far from its core premise, but stories like Dark Frontiers and Unimatrix Zero were so incredibly entertaining, I'd love to see more of that. Maybe the original premise is that the vessel could be sent to strike the Borg after the empire was so thoroughly crippled at the end of Voyager, possibly aiding local militaries against the Borg. Of course, things wouldn't be so simple as that; if the Borg were beaten badly enough, they might stop collecting their wrecked technology, leaving it to be harvested by others. The Kazons, for example, could become a serious menace if they got hold of Borg weaponry and transwarp drives. The Devore Imperium might try to use Borg nanoprobes to create an even more fascistic society. And it wouldn't just be an issue of dealing with bad guys, but moral issues as well. What if an impoverished planet starting reprogramming and reactivating drones to fight off pirates, or if new, semi-independent Collectives like what we saw in Unity are created? Does the Federation deem every bit of Borg technology out of their hands to be a threat that must be destroyed, or could compromises be made?
Or what if certain societies voluntarily join the Borg, as they find its communitarian existence appealing. Janeway herself stated that the Borg might get more support if they explained their ideology rather than just forcing it on other peoples. Maybe the Collective could become less like North Korea and more like the Holy Roman Empire, with a degree of unity but local centers of power having lots of autonomy, sometimes even greater power than the central government. New states could arise that pay lip service to the Collective's authority, but are autonomous powers in and of themselves that simple exist within official Borg Space and make heavy use of Borg technology. The ship in this series could in fact be part of a larger fleet of ships sent in to handle any threats, document the situation, and try to spread Federation values among the rising empires and principalities. Just like how Worf was in DS9, maybe Seven could come back in this series, possibly as a second in command (not sure if she would make a good captain).
Or what if certain societies voluntarily join the Borg, as they find its communitarian existence appealing. Janeway herself stated that the Borg might get more support if they explained their ideology rather than just forcing it on other peoples. Maybe the Collective could become less like North Korea and more like the Holy Roman Empire, with a degree of unity but local centers of power having lots of autonomy, sometimes even greater power than the central government. New states could arise that pay lip service to the Collective's authority, but are autonomous powers in and of themselves that simple exist within official Borg Space and make heavy use of Borg technology. The ship in this series could in fact be part of a larger fleet of ships sent in to handle any threats, document the situation, and try to spread Federation values among the rising empires and principalities. Just like how Worf was in DS9, maybe Seven could come back in this series, possibly as a second in command (not sure if she would make a good captain).
It is the fault of those TNG, DS9, and VOY writers that they created problem solver magical technology to handle the problem that the characters meet. So when they have to leap forward into 25th century, There is nothing to expand anymore, as the technology will become too magical and powerful.
That's why I prefer a complete reboot (new universe, new characters, new everything). Because by then they can fix the technological concept from the scratch. I think they really-really need to create tech tree (like in 4x game) for the reference to the writers. With this tech tree, writers won't do anything stupid to kill the continuity of the franchise.
That's why I prefer a complete reboot (new universe, new characters, new everything). Because by then they can fix the technological concept from the scratch. I think they really-really need to create tech tree (like in 4x game) for the reference to the writers. With this tech tree, writers won't do anything stupid to kill the continuity of the franchise.
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