Who is going to win this election in November?

[Tora Ziyal]

Buy a gun, learn how to use it this is the only language such people understand. If anyone steps to you to try anything violent , let them chew the bullet and claim 'Stand your ground'.

Seriously?

1. There are many situations -- including the incident that I posted about -- in which a person can be harassed and hurt that are not the kind of life-threatening violence in which self-defense with a gun is even remotely appropriate.

2. "Stand your ground" applies only in certain states. (Shouldn't be anywhere, but that's another subject.)

3. Even in a blatantly life-threatening situation where shooting in self-defense would be legal, it's not always possible. Example: Six years ago, I was awakened early one morning by a stranger with a knife -- one of my own kitchen knives -- pulling my clothes off. Even if I had had a gun, it wouldn't have done me a damn bit of good. And I might have been shot with it.

Please don't tell me that guns are the solution.

 

[indycar]

Just over a week ago, I asked people at my school what they thought of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton:

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I'm just curious what you all think.

 

[MacLeod]

You poor little snowflakes. To quote Obama: “I won, deal with it”.

The Democrat Party lost 900 seats in the 2010 election. In 2014, the next set of midterms, the Democrats lost another 700 seats. We have been governed by a minority with the illusion by the elite media that they are the majority. We are tired of being called racists, homophobe, islamophobe, religious fanatics, and the uneducated by people who hate America, the elite media, idiot Hollywood actors, and people who disagree with us.

Hillary had to steal her own nomination from Bernie Sanders. They nominated a criminal pathological liar with zero charisma who has made a mess of everything she has touched. A few in the press get it but dammed few and even less of the spoiled intolerant Hillary supporters do. This is fine with me as they have over played their hand and now it's their time to wonder in the wilderness. I say no reaching "across" the isle. Bury them while they are down.

The end of Obamacare

The end of the unrestricted murder of the unborn

The end of criminal illegal aliens murdering our citizens and hiding out in sanctuary cities

The end of the war on American Energy

The end of suing nuns over birth control

The end of murdering the police

The end of forcing schools to have boys in girls showers

The end of Global warming BS

I could go on but you get the point.

So let's see

Millions of Americans without Healthcare - Not seeing a benefit for the average American

Removal of freedom of choice - Not seeing a benefit for the average American

Like US citizens don't go around murdering other US citizens

Police will still be killed

As for Global Warming what if you are wrong and it's not BS?

Now correct me if I'm wrong but many areas are gerrymandered to favour a political party.

Now unless I'm mistaken each time Obama was elected he won both the popular vote and college vote.

 

[indycar]

Removal of freedom of choice - Not seeing a benefit for the average American

The one question that I have for people who support abortion is: what if your parents aborted you?

 

[EnderAKH]

The one question that I have for people who support abortion is: what if your parents aborted you?

I wouldn't be around to care one way or the other? I would be in the same place then I will be when I die, wherever you believe that to be?

 

[Spider]

The one question that I have for people who support abortion is: what if your parents aborted you?

Easy. I wouldn't be making this post. Next?

 

[fonzob1]

The one question that I have for people who support abortion is: what if your parents aborted you?

Then they wouldn't be here to care. They would have been snuffed out before ever having consciousness.

Abortion is a tough issue. I think abortion is an awful practice, and everything should be done to help expectant mothers to find another way. But, abortion should be legal in the first trimester. Otherwise, you will have failed back alley abortions with bad consequences.

 

[MacLeod]

So a hypothetical question with the PPACA repealed and abortion made illegal who is going to pay for the long term cost of say children with serious medical conditions that might require longterm if not lifeterm medical care? What if the mothers life is at risk due to a pregnacy and the only viable way to ensure the mothers life to abort the feteus? What about in the case of getting pregnat due to being raped?

 

[indycar]

So a hypothetical question with the PPACA repealed and abortion made illegal who is going to pay for the long term cost of say children with serious medical conditions that might require longterm if not lifeterm medical care? What if the mothers life is at risk due to a pregnacy and the only viable way to ensure the mothers life to abort the feteus? What about in the case of getting pregnat due to being raped?

I do agree that if serious health issues were to occur to the mother or the baby, then an abortion may be the best option.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

So a hypothetical question with the PPACA repealed and abortion made illegal who is going to pay for the long term cost of say children with serious medical conditions that might require longterm if not lifeterm medical care? What if the mothers life is at risk due to a pregnacy and the only viable way to ensure the mothers life to abort the feteus? What about in the case of getting pregnat due to being raped?

Either the parents pay, or the kid dies.

Either way, it sorts itself out, huh?

Compassionate conservatism is back.

 

[Tallguy]

I do agree that if serious health issues were to occur to the mother or the baby, then an abortion may be the best option.

So a hypothetical question with the PPACA repealed and abortion made illegal who is going to pay for the long term cost of say children with serious medical conditions that might require longterm if not lifeterm medical care? What if the mothers life is at risk due to a pregnacy and the only viable way to ensure the mothers life to abort the feteus? What about in the case of getting pregnat due to being raped?

Abortion should be legal and state sponsored in the case of rape, incest, I'll even give you medical deformities and disabilities. In all other cases it's illegal.

Compromise!

 

[indycar]

Abortion should be legal and state sponsored in the case of rape, incest, I'll even give you medical deformities and disabilities. In all other cases it's illegal.

Compromise!

Yeah, I didn't think of rape or incest. Those could be exemptions also.

 

[Spider]

Do we have any laws saying what men can and can not do with their bodies? Do we need laws saying what women, or anyone, can do with their bodies?

Seems to me ownership of your body takes precedence over pithy morality BS.

 

[MacLeod]

Right so the Pill is something like 99.9% efecitve and condoms are something like 98% so you can take precautions and still get pregnant what in the cases where parties took all reasonable precautions and still got pregnant?

 

[STR]

Abortion...In all other cases it's illegal.

Why? By that, I mean, why should this be an issue of the state? I can guess why you're opposed, you find it immoral for reasons either puritan or metaphysical (what is life and when does it begin). Why should the state get involved? What is the compelling interest?

Because morality by itself isn't sufficient cause for law, because morality is subjective. As such, it tends to make poor, and contentious, law.

 

[STR]

Right so the Pill is something like 99.9% efecitve and condoms are something like 98% so you can take precautions and still get pregnant what in the cases where parties took all reasonable precautions and still got pregnant?

There are roughly 50 million American women of reproductive age. Assuming 98% efficiveness for condoms and 99% effectiveness for the pill (there's more than one kind and they vary slightly in effect), if every woman used both simultaneously you'd still end up with 10,307 unwanted pregnancies every year.

That's actually a very optimistic number, as it used clinical effectiveness rates. In the real world (due to a mix of defect in material or use), condoms have an 82% effectiveness and the pill is more like 91%. Which means, even if everyone used both, it's more likely you'd see 1.09 million unplanned pregnancies every year.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

On that specific subject, we can see that access to other forms of birth control, along with good sex education, brings down the abortion rate. See statistics here.

Abortions in the US peaked back in 1990--over 25 years ago. They have been on a steady decline since then.

Things that will lower abortion rates:

1. Good sex education.
2. Affordable and safe access to contraception, and improvements in that contraception.
3. Policies that support poor people and families.

One would think if the goal is to have there be fewer abortions, this is the way to do it, rather than trying to outlaw them and just driving women into back alleys.

At the current rate of decline, we may see virtually no abortions happening in the US in about 20 years. To the extent it is a "problem" (and it isn't), it is "solving" itself.

 

[Tallguy]

Do we have any laws saying what men can and can not do with their bodies? Do we need laws saying what women, or anyone, can do with their bodies?

Seems to me ownership of your body takes precedence over pithy morality BS.

We have lots of laws that govern other people's bodies.

We don't let you kill a child that is born prematurely. At that point he/she is considered fully a person and protected by law. So obviously there is a line. A late term abortion is legal in some states, illegal in others. But a child that is at the exact same age has different rights on one of the birth canal than the other.

If it was possible (and we're getting there) to remove a baby from mom at any point in a pregnancy and then be raised to adulthood, would this be an issue anymore? You're pregnant, and they wouldn't dream of interfering with your body, but you can't have an abortion. They're just going to take the child.

My supposition is that at that point it's not about women's bodies, but it's about not wanting a child to exist. (This is a sci-fi board, we can talk sci-fi, right?)

Why? By that, I mean, why should this be an issue of the state? I can guess why you're opposed, you find it immoral for reasons either puritan or metaphysical (what is life and when does it begin). Why should the state get involved? What is the compelling interest?

Because morality by itself isn't sufficient cause for law, because morality is subjective. As such, it tends to make poor, and contentious, law.

At some point it does become an issue of the state. At the moment it is usually if the child is inside or outside. I suppose I don't why see the compelling interest changes at that point. Same organism, different location.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Late term abortions are virtually always for babies who were wanted, but who are already dead in utero or unlikely to survive birth (or long after birth). Once again, people who oppose this almost never know what they're talking about. They think women are just getting late term abortions for fun.

 

[Spider]

There is a difference between a baby, a human outside the womb, and a fetus inside the womb. A baby is a human with rights, a fetus is not, and should never be. It is a potential human, to be sure, but it is NOT a human, it is a fetus. And yes, I draw a very hard distinction here.

If you want fetus rights, them pass them as so, but don't call them human rights because you're mislabeling the subject of the law.