• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Timeless: Season 1 on NBC

Meh on the ethics of total global war. VonBraun built ballistic missiles, our guys built A-bombs. Nazis lobbed random V1s and V2s into European cities for terror's sake, the Allies turned almost every major industrial city in Germany and Japan into a pile of ash, rubble, and cremated flesh. They did it for evil, we did it for good. VonBraun didn't lose any sleep over it, Hap Arnold didn't lose any sleep over it.

You could argue VonBraun didn't kill anyone personally, any more than the Manhattan Project team did. In any case, he was the key to getting us to the Moon. Maybe that doesn't redeem his sins, maybe it does, I dunno - maybe it doesn't matter in the end.
 
I think that was the most fun episode yet and, maybe, has brought this series to a point where I'd like to see it continue as it shakes out the growing pains and finds a pace. Dealing with Flemming was pretty fun and liked the "New Bond Movie" bit at the end. Interesting story line, but the overall "arc" of what's going on behind the scenes I'm still dragging on and, still, "I'm doing this to destroy America!" thing. Ughhhhhhh.

I think it'd be a *bit* more interesting if he was doing his time traveling to make those changes to history we all usually say we'd make if given the opportunity and our characters have to make the moral slippery slope choice of ensuring history is kept intact.

We see them dealing with these moral struggles some, particularly with the episode centered around Lincoln and this one with von Braun but it still feels a bit, I dunno, shallow. What if the head bad-guy had gone back in time to kill Hitler before rising to power. Then our characters have to make the difficult choice of saving Hitler because we know how that history plays out and it's impossible to know if things would be better or worse without what he did. WWII and its aftermath saw a lot of global changes on social, economic and technological scales. Had WWII not happened? Who knows what would have happened without that war driving people, without the resulting Baby Boom, without re-appropriating technology acquired during the war into civilian and other use.

Like with von Braun. Sure, he helped the Nazis build bombs and destroy cities but ultimately they led to getting America to the moon. If there had been no war, would there have been as much money, time and effort dumped into his research allowing him to achieve what he ultimately does?

But, nah, let's go with some convoluted conspiracy subplot and the villain wanting to destroy America because.... "Rah, America and patriotism! And screw the existence of other nations!"
 
But, nah, let's go with some convoluted conspiracy subplot and the villain wanting to destroy America because.... "Rah, America and patriotism! And screw the existence of other nations!"

But he's not trying to destroy America. That's what Mason and Agent Christopher believe his motive is, but we now know that his real objective is to destroy the Rittenhouse organization, whatever that is. And he does apparently believe that he's making changes for the better.
 
I think it's definitely thought-provoking, more so than your typical time-travel show or movie,

You're probably correct about that. I might not be giving it the appreciation it deserves relative to other TV shows. I love history myself so a lot of the issues it looks at, while interesting, are pretty superficial compared to a real study. But, I'm sure it's not fair to rate a TV show that way.

Hopefully they develop Flynn's motivations soon. Maybe his actions are constrained as well. But, as of now, it all seems a bit too neat and tidy. Two teams going back in time, fighting each other, and one actively trying to alter history, and yet not much changes in the grand scheme of things.

Definitely enjoying the show but I hope they start to flesh these things out soon.

Mr Awe
 
You're probably correct about that. I might not be giving it the appreciation it deserves relative to other TV shows. I love history myself so a lot of the issues it looks at, while interesting, are pretty superficial compared to a real study. But, I'm sure it's not fair to rate a TV show that way.

Well, if nothing else, it's a deeper examination of history than The Time Tunnel...


But, as of now, it all seems a bit too neat and tidy. Two teams going back in time, fighting each other, and one actively trying to alter history, and yet not much changes in the grand scheme of things.

But that's because they've been (mostly) successful in preventing Flynn from altering history. Although von Braun defecting to America more than a year early seems like it should be a pretty major change.
 
I like the Time Tunnel where they arrived ten years behind in history from their present to stop Soviet Time travel Experiments. The story became more fun from there because one of the soviets in the the 50s, was a technician/mole/sleeper at the US Time Tunnel in the 60s shitting his pants that he's about to be uncovered... Good times.
 
Better, but agree they definitely need to develop the motivation for the 'bad guys' in a hurry. Rufus and Mason arguing about audio recordings isn't really cutting it. There's not enough WHY in the series yet, just nebulous conspiracy group that's being name-checked each week.

Needs more of a sense of why they're doing what they're doing, goals that the good guys are trying to really thwart, etc. Right now, feels very empty. Am enjoying the missions, just needs more of the mythology built around it.

Almost time for the flashback episode to before the time machine was stolen, so that we can see Flynn working with the good guys in the lab, hearing things that he's going to have to do something to stop? Gotta be coming, right? ;)
 
But, nah, let's go with some convoluted conspiracy subplot and the villain wanting to destroy America because.... "Rah, America and patriotism! And screw the existence of other nations!"
He's not trying to destroy America. He's trying to destroy Rittenhouse, whoever they or it might be. Your overly simplistic reading of the plot is a little baffling, because this show has already explained multiple times that the true target of Flynn's ire is Rittenhouse, not America.

It just so happens that the fates of Rittenhouse and the United States are very closely intertwined, possibly going back to the founding of the country, maybe even earlier. I do hope they eventually do an episode set during the Revolution, so far every episode's been in the 20th century aside from the Lincoln one.
 
Guess I forgot about the "Rittenhouse" thing because my mind tends to glaze over whenever a show talks about all-powerful, conspiratorial. government/corporate entities doing evil things because... money, or something. It's sort of an over-played trope in 2016. Regardless, they need to make the motivations of the guy or "Rittenhouse" or whatever more clear and justified.
 
Right now my biggest question is how exactly all of the events are connected to Rittenhouse and/or each other. Right now it feels kind of random, but I'm assuming they have some kind of idea how it's all going to come together.
 
But that's because they've been (mostly) successful in preventing Flynn from altering history. Although von Braun defecting to America more than a year early seems like it should be a pretty major change.

And, that's my point. It's all a little bit too neat. You have two armed, antagonist teams going back in team. One team is actively trying to change history. All this mayhem and yet so little change. If they wanted to kill Grant, they could've just popped him off with a rifle from a distance as he walked down some street. While handing Von Braun to the Russians might have been better for Flynn, just killing him would've been a viable option too. The Russians were further ahead of the US in rocketry up to the 60s and just not having VB to help play catch up would yielded similar results.

I'm also in the camp that they need to flesh out Flynn's/Rittenhouse's goals and how they fit in really quick. A shadowy group pulling strings is a bit cliche at this point.

That said, I'm still basically enjoying the show. So, they're doing enough things right to keep me watching.

Mr Awe
 
And, that's my point. It's all a little bit too neat. You have two armed, antagonist teams going back in team. One team is actively trying to change history. All this mayhem and yet so little change.

That's hardly unusual in time-travel stories. Usually, either the good guys prevent the change entirely, or the bad guys change everything and the good guys go back again and undo it, and either way, things end up just like they were, with maybe a couple of minor differences. It's par for the course. If anything, this show has more change happening than most similar stories.
 
And, that's my point. It's all a little bit too neat. You have two armed, antagonist teams going back in team. One team is actively trying to change history. All this mayhem and yet so little change. If they wanted to kill Grant, they could've just popped him off with a rifle from a distance as he walked down some street. While handing Von Braun to the Russians might have been better for Flynn, just killing him would've been a viable option too. The Russians were further ahead of the US in rocketry up to the 60s and just not having VB to help play catch up would yielded similar results.
I have the feeling that Flynn knows full well that Lucy's team is going to stop whatever changes he makes each week, and that the goal is not to institute the massive changes his actions would have caused had they been left unchecked, but rather the more subtle but still significant changes that come as a result of Lucy's efforts at stopping him.

He apparently has a journal detailing all of their adventures and encounters so far, and all his efforts to stop Lucy's team have all been half-hearted and easy to escape. When he tells her to stop trying to prevent what he's doing, I think he's just playing the part knowing that she will ignore him and continue to chase him and foil his drastic changes while instituting milder ones.

It's like negotiating for an item at a flea market. You set a high price point, and the buyer comes back with a lowball offer, and you gradually negotiate a reasonable compromise in the middle that gives you a little profit. Flynn attempts a massive change in the timeline, Lucy tries her best to maintain the status quo, and the minor alterations to the timeline that result were actually the goal all along and helps them somehow work toward achieving their plan of destroying Rittenhouse.

I'm also in the camp that they need to flesh out Flynn's/Rittenhouse's goals and how they fit in really quick. A shadowy group pulling strings is a bit cliche at this point.
Yeah, that's my least favorite thing about the show so far, and the fact that they give us so little background to go on while repeatedly namedropping the Bilderbergs, I mean the Trilateral Commission, I mean the Freemasons (They even named the guy who's working for them "Mason" for god's sake), I mean Rittenhouse.
 
I have the feeling that Flynn knows full well that Lucy's team is going to stop whatever changes he makes each week, and that the goal is not to institute the massive changes his actions would have caused had they been left unchecked, but rather the more subtle but still significant changes that come as a result of Lucy's efforts at stopping him.

That would be a very interesting take on the matter. If they go that route, I hope they don't let it go on too long. Dramatically speaking, it would be unsatisfying if a large part of the season was the heroes effectively doing the bad guys dirty work! And interesting take in a small dose though. And, it would explain a lot.

Mr Awe
 
I have the feeling that Flynn knows full well that Lucy's team is going to stop whatever changes he makes each week, and that the goal is not to institute the massive changes his actions would have caused had they been left unchecked, but rather the more subtle but still significant changes that come as a result of Lucy's efforts at stopping him.
That's pretty much where I'm at right now, too, and I hope that's where the show is going, because it makes a lot of sense. Every episode, Team Preston goes back and seemingly stops Team Flynn's nefarious schemes, but every time they return to the present there are still very clear differences. They're not really protecting their own time as much as they're keeping it mostly on the same track.

I really want to watch Weapon of Choice now. Someone actually go back in time and get Eon Productions and Sean Connery to make it. :lol:
 
That's pretty much where I'm at right now, too, and I hope that's where the show is going, because it makes a lot of sense. Every episode, Team Preston goes back and seemingly stops Team Flynn's nefarious schemes, but every time they return to the present there are still very clear differences. They're not really protecting their own time as much as they're keeping it mostly on the same track.

I don't think there were any timeline changes in episode 3. Although Flynn's goal in that case was to get the plutonium core, rather than to change anything in history, so that could still fit your theory.
 
I maybe wrong, I believe there was an episode of the original Tomorrow People where someone took a car engine back to the Roman Empire time by mistake. When they came back to their "present" the Romans had conquered the world and had space craft. My memory is hazy on this, was from when I was a kid.
 
The journal must be from a different Lucy from a previously sublimated timeline, otherwise they could see all the timetubs that have aver arrived in the past, and not be completely sure which one to go after first.

If they never go back to the present, then they can't be erased.

It's also possible that on one is erased, and that all timelines continue to exist.

Which means that time travel does not change a timeline at all, it just creates a new parallel timeline, which means that there is no reason to chase Flynn, since not only is he not changing time, but it seems impossible that he can ever return to a time line that he left from.
 
I still have a nagging suspicion that Rufus is either Mason or Mason's father. It's really the only reason that genuinely makes sense for Mason to insist that Rufus join that team. They could have chosen someone else from the team, like the woman who was able to figure out where the mothership was located in the present, or even Mason himself. Rufus is just too timid and too inexperienced for the role unless he has to be there for some hereto unknown reason.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top