What post-Nemesis Trek SHOULD be like

[fireproof78]

I see little value in splintering the Federation. If the Dominion could not do that with all of its subversion and overwhelming technology, what "outside forces" or "civil war" is going to drive the Federation to such drastic measures?

Personally, I would rather see a peaceful Federation that continues to branch out and explore. I don't need a dystopian Federation to continue the story. Most post-NEM storylines I read involve yet another war with the Klingons Seriously? That's rehashing old ground.

Let the Federation be and send ships out to other galaxies. They're explorers after all.

 

[Tenacity]

While I wouldn't want to see the Federation collapse and ST become some complete dystopia, there's no reason why the Federation could not fall on really hard times for a certain period.

I can easily see the Federation breaking up after the Dominion War, over recriminations concerning leadership and conduct. Not mining the wornhole as soon as the Dominion was discovered alone could cause the breakup.

I see little value in splintering the Federation

Story possibilities, soften the Federation up consideribly, turn the one giant Federation into dozens of little Federations.

Erase the Federation's massive power being a automatic assumption.

Let us dig into who the Federation's (former) Members are, we never found out very much about most of them. Too busy looking outward.

 

[fireproof78]

I can easily see the Federation breaking up after the Dominion War, over recriminations concerning leadership and conduct. Not mining the wornhole as soon as the Dominion was discovered alone could cause the breakup.

That's a rather specific reason to leave after the war. If that were the case, why didn't members leave when the wormhole became a threat?

Story possibilities, soften the Federation up consideribly, turn the one giant Federation into dozens of little Federations.

Erase the Federation's massive power being a automatic assumption.

Let us dig into who the Federation's (former) Members are, we never found out very much about most of them. Too busy looking outward.

Why can't we dig in to those member worlds while they are still a part of the Federation? How much did we learn about Kronos, Cardassia or Romulus through the course of TNG and DS9? Why not apply similar explorations to existing members?

See, this is where I don't understand the opinion. Apparently, the story ideas of a united Federation existing relatively peaceably is not enough to craft stories around. So, instead of continuing on an optimistic vision of mutual support and cooperation, the Federation fractures and refuses to heal after the Dominion War.

I find that more limiting and far more cynical way to create drama than trying to work within an optimistic Federation.

Are there story possibilities in the above description? Absolutely, and it could even be interesting to explore. Do I think it fits in Star Trek? I personally do not.

 

[Tenacity]

Apparently, the story ideas of a united Federation existing relatively peaceably is not enough to craft stories around

A peacefully utopia make for a boring action/adventure show.

 

[Rad]

Well... We have had several characters evolve into higher beings. I would love to see a "Stephen Decker/Ilia" or "Wesley Crusher" versus "Q" or "Kes" brought into a story line. After Decker and Ilia became new, sentient beings in TMP, the movies more or less stayed grounded in physicality.

 

[fireproof78]

A peacefully utopia make for a boring action/adventure show.

Which is why Star Trek never lasted?

I think that conflict is fine, especially between characters. But, the idea that the Federation needs to be splintered in a post-NEM show is something I will actively argue against, because the galaxy is splintered enough already. I would personally imagine that the Federation would reach out to the Romulans and try to actually give overtures of peace, in a similar way that the Khitomer Accords came about.

I would say that the Federation would be in a better position to consolidate their unity and work to build upon it because of the threats. I could even see a more militarized, hawkish, wing emerge and suggest that larger ships be built to face the next threat, while other factions may form over what to do with Cardassia and Romulus.

You can have conflict and factions without breaking up the Federation. Otherwise, the Dominion Was turns in to a Pyrrhic victory, where the Federation that was fought for is completely lost in the end. It's similar to one of my complains about the The Force Awakens:

Spoiler: Spoliers for The Force Awakens

The Republic that the heroes fought to restore in the Original Trilogy is complete destroyed apropos of nothing. So, not only to we not get to set the New Republic that was fought so hard for, but it was destroyed in one scene.

For me, it undermines the resolution of the war if the reaction is to split. It begs the question of what was holding the Federation together in the first place and why was it worth saving.

 

[Tenacity]

A peacefully utopia make for a boring action/adventure show.

Which is why Star Trek never lasted?

It lasted because Star Trek has never been about peacefulness or utopia.

 

[Tenacity]

For me, it undermines the resolution of the war if the reaction is to split. It begs the question of what was holding the Federation together in the first place and why was it worth saving.

After the second world war the military alliance to combat the axis powers dissolved, it's job was done.

Alliances and coalitions come and go. When they've served their purposes or failed to do so.

 

[fireproof78]

After the second world war the military alliance to combat the axis powers dissolved, it's job was done.

Alliances and coalitions come and go. When they've served their purposes or failed to do so.

A fair point, but not exactly relevant, considering the Federation was not specifically formed around the Dominion threat or as a coalition to fight a specific threat. The Federation formed around mutual cooperation, exploration and support of its members, not to counter outside threats. The alliance between the Klingons and the Romluans would be dissolved, as it was certainly temporary but not the Federation.

I can see some Federation members deciding that, after the Dominion War, they want to leave, for a variety of reasons. But, I don't think the Federation, which was formed in 2161, would, after 200 years, suddenly be like,"You know what? this isn't working out."

Sorry, I understand that alliances come and go, and that relationships change over time. However, I see this decision as an attempt to produce cheap drama in a series. I firmly think that there is a way to produce good stories and drama and maintain a more-or-less intact Federation.

 

[Tenacity]

But, I don't think the Federation, which was formed in 2161, would, after 200 years, suddenly be like,"You know what? this isn't working out."

But it would be 200 years only for a few members, some members might have been with the Federation for a short number of years or decades.

 

[fireproof78]

But it would be 200 years only for a few members, some members might have been with the Federation for a short number of years or decades.

So that means the entire Federation is shattered in to a bunch of "little Federations?"

I'm sure it makes sense to some one, but it isn't working for me Again, it feels like a cheap attempt at drama rather than exploring other facets of Federation life.

 

[Tenacity]

So that means the entire Federation is shattered in to a bunch of "little Federations?"

Basically, Little Federations, Republics, Kingdoms, Empires, independent planets, etc..

And it would not necessarily be a matter of "shattered," more a gradual orderly process of Member simply cancelling their memberships, tidying up business and leaving.

While it's never been mentioned, my assumption is that any member could cancel their membership at any time. It wouldn't be like you join the Federation and the door slams shut behind you.

Assets would be divided up, if the leaving member had starships in Starfleet these ships would leave with them, the same with colonies and bases.

 

[fireproof78]

Basically, Little Federations, Republics, Kingdoms, Empires, independent planets, etc..

And it would not necessarily be a matter of "shattered," more a gradual orderly process of Member simply cancelling their memberships, tidying up business and leaving.

While it's never been mentioned, my assumption is that any member could cancel their membership at any time. It wouldn't be like you join the Federation and the door slams shut behind you.

Assets would be divided up, if the leaving member had starships in Starfleet these ships would leave with them, the same with colonies and bases.

It still doesn't make sense from an in-universe perspective. The Federation has withstood several threats, but it's the Dominion War that undoes the spirit of mutual support and cooperation? Again, if some worlds left, I would get that, but the division of resources like you are describing feels very much like they just gave up.

I certainly agree that membership can be cancelled at any time, an that would be interesting to explore. But, putting it on a such large scale that completely wipes out the Federation as it is, is unrealistic, from an in universe perspective.

While I see some potential in stories, I don't see it working from an in-universe, natural consequences perspective. It feels very forced to have members all break apart in to their own little kingdoms.

 

[Vger23]

I was going to type a response...but this covers it!

In order of preference:

1. Anything Bryan Fuller wants to do. It appears that's pre-TOS, so now I'm super excited about pre-TOS.

2. 31st century "fall of the Roman Empire" type story, retaining the optimism of prior Star Trek shows with the crew of an old, ragged ship boldly going to make the Federation great again and bringing hope back to a hopeless galaxy.

3. Full reboot. No time spent explaining a nonsensical time split, no appealing to nostalgia, no rehashing, just a whole new universe and a whole new sandbox to play with.




4. 25th/26th century post-NEM show going nowhere.

 

[Vger23]

It would be interesting to count the number of times the word "war" appears in this thread.

Sorry, but "space wars" is the most over-used sci-fi cliche there is. I'd prefer future Treks avoid it and focus on exploring the galaxy and having fun, creative adventures.

 

[fireproof78]

It would be interesting to count the number of times the word "war" appears in this thread.

Sorry, but "space wars" is the most over-used sci-fi cliche there is. I'd prefer future Treks avoid it and focus on exploring the galaxy and having fun, creative adventures.

Political thriller then?

 

[Vger23]

Political thriller then?

No. absolutely not.

This is what I don't understand. Political thrillers- dime a dozen. War stories- dime a dozen. Why do we want Star Trek to conform to this common procedural approach? The opportunity is to be, once again, unique in telling adventure stories about exploring the galaxy.

If I want a procedural, I'll watch Chicago Fire, Madame Secretary, or NCIS. Too many fans seem to want to take Trek away from its core of "This is a show about exploring outer space"

Don't get it.

 

[fireproof78]

No. absolutely not.

This is what I don't understand. Political thrillers- dime a dozen. War stories- dime a dozen. Why do we want Star Trek to conform to this common procedural approach? The opportunity is to be, once again, unique in telling adventure stories about exploring the galaxy.

If I want a procedural, I'll watch Chicago Fire, Madame Secretary, or NCIS. Too many fans seem to want to take Trek away from its core of "This is a show about exploring outer space"

Don't get it.

But, part of Trek was a war facet, even if it wasn't the primary focus. I mean, one of the most popular episodes of TOS is Balance of Terror, arguably a very submarine style war episode. Same thing with TWOK, and TUC is more of a political thriller.

I agree that there is room for multiple story types within the Star Trek universe, but "anomaly of the week" can be just as procedural as any other type of story.

I don't think it's a matter of moving away from space exploration, so much as building upon what has been popular in Trek's past.

 

[ancient]

The whole storylline in the books with the borg invasion & the federation falling apart was interesting, but at the same time it came across as kind of try-hard fan-fiction.

 

[Paradise City]

I would like to see a visual depiction of the Federation split up. Within some alternative universe context or just as a temporary thing with the rift promptly healed or whatever way you want to present it. Perhaps the Romulans have the Dramatis Personae thing that had the DS9 crew at each others throats and are using it on a massive scale against the Federation. So you'd have alot of intrigue, in-fighting and scheming before they find out they've been hoodwinked by the latest Romulan caper. Back to a Renaissance Italy sensibility for a time there. That'd I'd like to see.