Spoilers Timeless: Season 1 on NBC

[Christopher]

Nice to see them focusing on a historical sidebar like Kennedy's mistress instead of one of the standard big-ticket historical events like the Hindenburg or Lincoln's assassination. It adds variety to the show. I also like the show's focus on subaltern perspectives on American history -- the African-American point of view in the first couple of episodes, and a women's-history angle here, touching on how women in history have often used sexual associations with powerful men as a means of gaining informal influence on a high level when formal access to such power was denied them. If the show continues to focus on showing history from perspectives not normally featured in grade-school textbooks, it could end up being one of the smarter and more intriguing time-travel shows out there, at least from a historian's standpoint.

It was a bit awkward the way they dealt with Sinatra and Kennedy by never clearly showing their faces. A bit incongruous, given that we did see Lincoln and Booth clearly last week. Good music, though.

So Flynn's mission is to erase Rittenhouse, whatever that is, from history. Or at least that's what he's telling Anthony Bruhl to get his cooperation. If Rittenhouse is just a corporation or something, you'd think it wouldn't take such extreme measures to unmake it. Unless it's one of those secret cabals pervading everything that are so popular in conspiracy stories.

This is the first time they've managed to avoid changing anything in the present -- even though Wyatt tried to change his own late wife's fate Doc Brown-style. Indeed, Flynn's whole mission was apparently to get the atomic core to use in the present -- though I wonder if maybe his intent is to use it as a power source for another time machine or something rather than as a bomb.

 

[Stephen Lee]

I wasn't really paying full attention to the show but the ending with how they 'transported' the nuke was smart & made alot of sense.

 

[Christopher]

I wasn't really paying full attention to the show but the ending with how they 'transported' the nuke was smart & made alot of sense.

In a way, it's the same logic as Wyatt's attempt to send a telegram to 2012.

 

[Stephen Lee]

In a way, it's the same logic as Wyatt's attempt to send a telegram to 2012.

Yea... but if he was smart, he should have written a letter instead.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, sending a telegram to himself seems like an odd route to go. Do we even still have telegrams today?! At least in America? Delivering a letter through the post-office or, like Doc Brown, Western Union or something would have been a better route to go. I did chuckle when Wyatt mentioned Back to the Future Part II.

I thought it was an interesting episode and, as said above, it was interesting to see a side-note of history rather than some major event; though a tangential story that could impact bigger events and that mission seemed more about trying to get the Plutonium than altering history.

I do wonder what the end-goal with the Plutonium is and not surprised that Matt Frewer's character is a "defector" more than having been kidnapped. Saw that coming from miles away.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, sending a telegram to himself seems like an odd route to go.

He sent it to his wife, actually.

Do we even still have telegrams today?! At least in America? Delivering a letter through the post-office or, like Doc Brown, Western Union or something would have been a better route to go.

It was Western Union. There was a Western Union sign above the booth. Western Union was originally a telegraph service (The New York & Western Union Telegraph Company), and indeed, by the time of this episode, it had effectively monopolized telegraph communications in the US.

However, Western Union stopped sending telegrams in 2006. I'm not sure what would've happened to any unsent telegrams at that point. They might've just sent them ahead of time. Or maybe they just would've never been sent, which would explain why Wyatt's wife didn't get the telegram in 2012.

 

[Stephen Lee]

They might've just sent them ahead of time. Or maybe they just would've never been sent, which would explain why Wyatt's wife didn't get the telegram in 2012.

That is a possibility. Well, maybe he will learn from that and pre-write a letter & the next time the mothership heads out all he has to do is deal with postage. Its not like the government chick even cares if they mess with their own histories, as long as the good old USA is still around, it seems.

 

[JD]

I liked this episode quite a bit.
I agree that it was interesting to go for a smaller part of history.
I was not surprised Anthony was working with Flynn, that was pretty obvious.
It was nice to find out what Flynn and his group's goal is. I think now the big question is what exactly is Rittenhouse and would getting rid of it be good or bad.
I was glad that they didn't change history again, and that we'll at least spend another episode with Lucy dealing with this timeline.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Government Chick... Agent Denise Christopher.

Doesn't understand time.

If Lucy started getting to know her, and noticed the minute personal difference in Denise's life every time they got back, that may be more alarming for Denny, if the man she is married to, and maybe the children she has keep getting jumbled or removed... Hmmm, what if changes to the timeline keep flipping Denise's sexual orientation?

I travelled through time yesterday.

I got that dirty happy feeling I get whenever I see Elena Satine, anticipating how damn good she is going to be as Mera, Aquaman's wife in the upcoming Justice League movie.

(Think about it.)

 

[Mr Awe]

I think Garcia Flynn is Lucy Preston's real father.

No, I'm thinking it's the old dude who was supposedly kidnapped but not really. I forget his name though!
Mr Awe

 

[Christopher]

No, I'm thinking it's the old dude who was supposedly kidnapped but not really. I forget his name though!

Anthony Bruhl.

 

[Trekker4747]

He sent it to his wife, actually.

Noted/

It was Western Union. There was a Western Union sign above the booth. Western Union was originally a telegraph service (The New York & Western Union Telegraph Company), and indeed, by the time of this episode, it had effectively monopolized telegraph communications in the US.

Must have missed the WU signage, only noted the "telegraph services" signage.

However, Western Union stopped sending telegrams in 2006. I'm not sure what would've happened to any unsent telegrams at that point. They might've just sent them ahead of time. Or maybe they just would've never been sent, which would explain why Wyatt's wife didn't get the telegram in 2012.

I doubt there would have been any "unsent telegrams" because I'm guessing that time travelers in the past wishing to send telegrams to themselves or people they know in the future is pretty uncommon. I can think of no other scenario for there to be a meaningful delay in the sending of a telegram.

I suspect they would have just finished sending whatever telegrams were in the queue and then shut down. If there were any in the queue to be delivered at a future date, for whatever reasons, they probably either sent them early anyway or "returned to sender" as undeliverable.

So, okay, it was Western Union, but why send a telegram? In Back to the Future Part II sends Marty a letter with a delayed delivery date, presumably Doc was able to buy this with whatever viable in 1885 currency he had.

Wyatt didn't do this. He tried sending a telegram, delayed to a time when telegrams were dying/dead. I mean, this would have been a slip of paper that would have to been kept on physical record for over 40 years, then recovered, and then produced and delivered by whatever means telegrams used, or would have used, in 2012. And it's unlikely Wyatt had on an him any, or enough, viable 1960s currency to buy the delay.

Doc wrote a physical letter, on several pieces of paper, and had it placed in a large, bulky, 19th century envelope set to be physically delivered at a specific date and time, further helped by the delivery being in the same general location as where Doc left the letter. Wyatt wanted to send a telegram to an entirely different location.

Big difference between a letter and a telegram, Wyatt's plan was doomed from the beginning.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dick Whitman]

I also enjoyed this episode a lot. It's probably best we never got a reason the telegram did not work. Number of possibilities. Maybe she did receive it but did not believe it? She had no real reason to do so.

I think right now there are more new time travel series in production at the same time than I have ever heard of. There is this, Doctor Who, Legends of Tomorrow. The Flash not only a time travel series but it's a huge part of its storyline. Coming soon there is Time after Time on ABC. Fox has Making History.

Plus Frequency also on the CW is basically a form of time travel by communicating with the past and changing history.

 

[Christopher]

So, okay, it was Western Union, but why send a telegram? In Back to the Future Part II sends Marty a letter with a delayed delivery date, presumably Doc was able to buy this with whatever viable in 1885 currency he had.

Wyatt didn't do this. He tried sending a telegram, delayed to a time when telegrams were dying/dead. I mean, this would have been a slip of paper that would have to been kept on physical record for over 40 years, then recovered, and then produced and delivered by whatever means telegrams used, or would have used, in 2012. And it's unlikely Wyatt had on an him any, or enough, viable 1960s currency to buy the delay.

Doc wrote a physical letter, on several pieces of paper, and had it placed in a large, bulky, 19th century envelope set to be physically delivered at a specific date and time, further helped by the delivery being in the same general location as where Doc left the letter. Wyatt wanted to send a telegram to an entirely different location.

Big difference between a letter and a telegram, Wyatt's plan was doomed from the beginning.

Which makes sense, because Wyatt is not a historian. He's not supposed to have perfect understanding of how things worked in the past. It's an error on the character's part, not the writers' part, because it's logical that this particular character would've made that error.

 

[Stephen Lee]

I think right now there are more new time travel series in production at the same time than I have ever heard of

Also a show called Travelers on Showcase. Its Canadian so I don't know if the US is getting it anytime soon.

 

[UssGlenn]

iTelegram bought Western Unions telex service in 2006 and is still operating. So you can still send a telegram today.

 

[Phoenix219]

I wasn't really paying full attention to the show but the ending with how they 'transported' the nuke was smart & made alot of sense.

Although it makes me wonder, if they leave the big hole there, can't the hero-time-travelers just go back and dig it up first?

 

[Phoenix219]

Honestly, I don't know any of their names. I assumed you were talking about Rufus and the guy he's conspiring with. They look similar enough (large eyes, rounded features, similar builds, etc.) that they might be the same person, but only his "older self" actually knows that. It would explain a lot if that were the case.


What's even more confusing to me is that when they jump back, they always seem to arrive AFTER Flynn had already arrived. So they have to also be jumping back to a third timeline. Which makes even less sense. It's even worse than (but similar to) the goof they did in Back to the Future II; Old Biff never should have arrived back in the future after he changed the past, but he did anyway despite how Doc explained how things were working in the altered 1985.

Pretty sure there is a lapsed-time "takes awhile to catch up" deal going on here, too, giving them time to get into the past and chase after them. Thats why they are notified so quickly when the mothership goes out.

These type of shows do NOT have multiple timelines. They have one timeline that changes and morphs around the travelers. This is how Jennifer survived in Back to the Future, and how Biff was able to return the car - I believe the official explanation is that alt Lorraine killed Biff sometime between alt 1985 and 2015, meaning the world had restored itself to more or less normal by the time 2015 rolled around, only with no Biff to survive until old age, Old Biff fades out. Basically, what would have happened to Marty in Part 1 if he hadn't tried to fix his mistake and had just returned home somehow.

I also enjoyed this episode a lot. It's probably best we never got a reason the telegram did not work. Number of possibilities. Maybe she did receive it but did not believe it? She had no real reason to do so.

I think right now there are more new time travel series in production at the same time than I have ever heard of. There is this, Doctor Who, Legends of Tomorrow. The Flash not only a time travel series but it's a huge part of its storyline. Coming soon there is Time after Time on ABC. Fox has Making History.

Plus Frequency also on the CW is basically a form of time travel by communicating with the past and changing history.

This show seems very derivative of Legends of Tomorrow, but without the super heroics. Rogue agent steals a prototype time machine and takes off thru history, trying to "save the world" by any means necessary, even if it means altering the timeline and some "means to an end" type casualties along the way. He is pursued by another team of time travelers/time cops attempting to stop him from damaging the timeline. They face off at various points in history, with the rogue agent getting away with partial successes at the last minute each time.

Its the same damn story, except on Timeless, we are watching from the perspective of the *bad guys*

Go Flynn!

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

Pretty sure there is a lapsed-time "takes awhile to catch up" deal going on here, too, giving them time to get into the past and chase after them. Thats why they are notified so quickly when the mothership goes out.

So why isn't there any delay upon their returns?

These type of shows do NOT have multiple timelines. They have one timeline that changes and morphs around the travelers. This is how Jennifer survived in Back to the Future, and how Biff was able to return the car - I believe the official explanation is that Lorraine killed Biff sometime between alt 1985 and 2015, meaning the world had restored it

Doc clearly showed a second timeline when he was describing what was happening. And... that doesn't explain Biff at all. Else Doc and Marty could have just as easily went back to the future to stop him before he stole the car in the first place.

 

[Phoenix219]

So why isn't there any delay upon their returns?


Doc clearly showed a second timeline when he was describing what was happening. And... that doesn't explain Biff at all. Else Doc and Marty could have just as easily went back to the future to stop him before he stole the car in the first place.

Could be that the act of returning "completes" the update/rewrite. Could be that there is a debriefing period at the station that takes awhile, and travel times home and what not, and there is a delay we are just not seeing.

back to the future is inconsistant some times, obviously, but i have read before, that that was the writers intent regarding Biff (or their attempt at one, while needing it to happen that way for narrative reasons.)

Doc showed that to explain what was going on, but visually it would have made no sense to draw the line on top of the other line lol. the other timeline was rewritten, just as at the end of the first movie, it is a rewritten timeline Marty returns to. If it wasn't one single timeline, then objects woudln't morph, and people wouldn't vanish - you would just be a product of a parallel timeline you can't reach anymore and would exist absolutely fine with no worries about grandfather paradoxes. They coudln't have gone back to before he stole the car, because after he changed history, he died in the 90s or something and blinked out. There wouldn't be a Biff in 2015 anymore to steal the car.