Spoilers Luke Cage - Netflix (Season 1)
- Thread starter Reverend
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Has a timeline been set? To me, everything seems to be happening in all these shows shortly after the first Avengers movie. So it looks like they aren't up to "current" events.
So far as I'm aware everything Marvel puts out (with a few obvious exceptions like the first Captain America movie & the Agent Cater series) takes place more or less in real time and has been that was at least since Avengers.
Avengers Tower not showing up in Daredevil & Jessica Jones despite the Metlife building being clearly visible in several shots is somewhat baffling, particularly since it featured in a few of the posters, but since it's absence is essentially a continuity error one can't exactly argue this somehow dates the shows as pre-AoU since "the incident" is repeatedly brought up and as such, the tower *should* be there in theory.
As for why SHIELD didn't show up: the only rational in-universe explanation I can think of is that they were there, we just didn't see them. Really speaking it was only a matter of days between Cage appearing on the news and disappearing off to Georgia, then less than a day between returning to NY and the finale. So perhaps Coulson & Mac were busy dealing with an immediate threat elsewhere and Cage was seen as a lower priority and by the time that arrived on the scene things had already come to a head.
Avengers Tower not showing up in Daredevil & Jessica Jones despite the Metlife building being clearly visible in several shots is somewhat baffling, particularly since it featured in a few of the posters, but since it's absence is essentially a continuity error one can't exactly argue this somehow dates the shows as pre-AoU since "the incident" is repeatedly brought up and as such, the tower *should* be there in theory.
As for why SHIELD didn't show up: the only rational in-universe explanation I can think of is that they were there, we just didn't see them. Really speaking it was only a matter of days between Cage appearing on the news and disappearing off to Georgia, then less than a day between returning to NY and the finale. So perhaps Coulson & Mac were busy dealing with an immediate threat elsewhere and Cage was seen as a lower priority and by the time that arrived on the scene things had already come to a head.
Also Luke is small fish compared to many inhumans and the avengers and happened to turn into a bit of a local celebrity.
So news of him getting detained by a at this point barely legal again goverment agency would have been bad publicity for SHIELD which the new director is all about.
So they may have their eyes on him but let him be him as long as he only beats up local crime mobs.
So news of him getting detained by a at this point barely legal again goverment agency would have been bad publicity for SHIELD which the new director is all about.
So they may have their eyes on him but let him be him as long as he only beats up local crime mobs.
Well I don't think publicity is really the issue. One assumes SHIELD is still officially working under the cover of the ATCU, at least until the official announcement. Plus the legalities are covered by the Sokovia Accords, so at least someone should be approaching Luke to see if he'll sign them.
Maybe once he was outed as escaped convict Carl Johnson it became an issue of jurisdiction and SHIELD had to step back?
Maybe once he was outed as escaped convict Carl Johnson it became an issue of jurisdiction and SHIELD had to step back?
Good to know they're keeping that idea in mind. I look forward to whatever they do/say, no matter how minor.
I disagree. I think "The Incident" is just a local colloquialism. Besides, it rolls off the tongue better than the clunky "Battle of New York," especially for casual conversation.
They may not have overtly referenced any of the movies after the Avengers (so far), but the public awareness of superpowered people seems to have massively increased over the course of the shows. That suggests that it has moved forward more or less concurrently, and that the people on the street at this point probably are aware of SHIELD, HYDRA, Inhumans, Watchdogs, etc.
It's fifteen years later and people still talk about 9/11. It became part of our civilisation's mental landscape and I can only imagine the impact it continues to have on New Yorkers.
In the MCU, "the Incident" was only three or four years ago and it was a hole in the sky, aliens tearing up the city, fighting with a billionaire in a robot suit, a green monster, an actual Norse god, some guy from 1940's bubblegum cards and a pair of government black-ops assassins. I don't see that fading from the local mindset anytime soon.
The Sokovia Accords bombing and Rogers going rogue would have been big news, but just like most sad headlines from abroad, it lacks that scale or immediacy.
Remember that these are all New York based shows so all but the youngest kids were probably in the city when this happened and saw it with their own eyes.
ETA: Just started re-watching Daredevil season 1 and there's a line addressing the above right there in the first 11 minutes: -
So it seams the euphemism is a fairly recent development and seemingly just a New York thing as I suspected. Also they specifically mention that it's been 2 years.
Incidentally: Turk is much more of a scumbag than I remember. I forgot he was introduced as a human trafficker, tasering helpless women. I'll have a better idea when I get to season 2 but I get the feeling they toned him down later on from irredeemable scum to more of an amoral opportunistic, but mostly harmless rogue. Less Marsellus Wallace more Starscream.
I can only presume the showrunners liked what the actor did and decided to bring him back, but toned down the villainy a few notches so it's credible he'd still be back out on the streets in short order.
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This entire post will have spoilers. Do not read further if you don't want to encounter them.
There is so much to like about this show but so much more that keeps me from really enjoying it to the extent I should.
The trope of the obtuse police leadership refusing to listen to reason was a constant drag.
The mob bosses constantly killing their underlings is really just completely unacceptable in any sort of drama if I'm expected to take it remotely seriously. Throwing the guy who killed Pop off the building is the one place that behavior had any sort of dramatic impact and actually made sense. Otherwise, randomly murdery bosses are only really okay if your villain is The Joker and being unhinged without a long-term plan is part of the concept of the character, but in anything approaching the real world it is entirely counterproductive. Diamondback's clear insanity makes me seriously doubt his ability to put together the sort of organization we're expected to believe he has.
Luke's reluctant hero shtick and unwillingness to take the fight to Cottonmouth (or Mariah, or Diamondback) in any meaningful way (even legally) even after several attempts on his life and the lives of the people he cares about had my eyes rolling. We've had decades of crime dramas, and plenty of good examples. It is past time to step it up.
It is time that writers stopped making smart characters act dumb for the sake of the story they want to tell.
All that said, I had fun with the show. I just find it frustrating how much better it could have been with a few more drafts.
There is so much to like about this show but so much more that keeps me from really enjoying it to the extent I should.
The trope of the obtuse police leadership refusing to listen to reason was a constant drag.
The mob bosses constantly killing their underlings is really just completely unacceptable in any sort of drama if I'm expected to take it remotely seriously. Throwing the guy who killed Pop off the building is the one place that behavior had any sort of dramatic impact and actually made sense. Otherwise, randomly murdery bosses are only really okay if your villain is The Joker and being unhinged without a long-term plan is part of the concept of the character, but in anything approaching the real world it is entirely counterproductive. Diamondback's clear insanity makes me seriously doubt his ability to put together the sort of organization we're expected to believe he has.
Luke's reluctant hero shtick and unwillingness to take the fight to Cottonmouth (or Mariah, or Diamondback) in any meaningful way (even legally) even after several attempts on his life and the lives of the people he cares about had my eyes rolling. We've had decades of crime dramas, and plenty of good examples. It is past time to step it up.
It is time that writers stopped making smart characters act dumb for the sake of the story they want to tell.
All that said, I had fun with the show. I just find it frustrating how much better it could have been with a few more drafts.
I like this show fairly well, but the second half is a real momentum killer. A less interesting villain, a bunch of somewhat irritating tropes repeated a lot (I'm at around episode 10, and I think Luke is now being framed for approximately 12,678 different crimes at once 
) and I really hate Misty Knight. On the other hand, Claire Temple went from a character I was neutral towards in the others shows to a character I like. When she was being interrogated by Misty and said to her (paraphrasing):
Claire: I don't know whether you're stupid or being pressured, but Luke Cage is innocent
I cheered. She was saying to Misty the exact same thing I'd been thinking for probably 4 episodes at that point. Then Misty attacked her because Misty isn't just a gullible idiot, she's a violent gullible idiot (but that didn't even really phase Claire, because she's a lot tougher then Misty). I think I have 2 or 3 episodes left, and its a bit of a tough watch but I like Luke, Claire and the overall show well enough to keep going. Still, like a lot of people said, Cottonmouth's death felt like the end of a season, and the rest doesn't flow as well. Not bad, but not nearly as good as the first half. Hopefully Luke proves he's innocent and shoves that fact in Misty's face, at which point she'll probably grumble about how she'll get that vigilante next time (like every bad, vigilante hating Cop). Even with a flawed second half I'd say this is a much needed success for Marvel netflix, bringing its good show success rate to 50%. I hope Luke Cage gets a second season, and I hope that Iron Fist will end up being good.
) and I really hate Misty Knight. On the other hand, Claire Temple went from a character I was neutral towards in the others shows to a character I like. When she was being interrogated by Misty and said to her (paraphrasing):Claire: I don't know whether you're stupid or being pressured, but Luke Cage is innocent
I cheered. She was saying to Misty the exact same thing I'd been thinking for probably 4 episodes at that point. Then Misty attacked her because Misty isn't just a gullible idiot, she's a violent gullible idiot (but that didn't even really phase Claire, because she's a lot tougher then Misty). I think I have 2 or 3 episodes left, and its a bit of a tough watch but I like Luke, Claire and the overall show well enough to keep going. Still, like a lot of people said, Cottonmouth's death felt like the end of a season, and the rest doesn't flow as well. Not bad, but not nearly as good as the first half. Hopefully Luke proves he's innocent and shoves that fact in Misty's face, at which point she'll probably grumble about how she'll get that vigilante next time (like every bad, vigilante hating Cop). Even with a flawed second half I'd say this is a much needed success for Marvel netflix, bringing its good show success rate to 50%. I hope Luke Cage gets a second season, and I hope that Iron Fist will end up being good.
I am on episode 8 and while its not been bad, it's been disappointing for sure. First the villain (at least so far) poses no threat whatsoever to Luke as does anyone and I find that utterly boring. The characters while interesting enough to watch don't have a story interesting enough like Jessica Jones or Daredevil.
The show does not feel like a comic book show at the end of the day.
The show does not feel like a comic book show at the end of the day.
Yeah, as much as I enjoyed the show for the characters, the setting and the overall vibe, the actual plot is easily the show's weakest link. It oft times feels almost rudderless and scatterbrained. Which I suppose is at least partially a result of Luke Cage mostly reacting rather than acting. He just sort of bounces from one external force to the next.
Jessica Jones on the other hand had the full package with both interesting characters *and* an engaging plot. Daredevil...was also a little unfocused at times but was saved by the Punisher & Kingpin subplots.
(Incidentally: just got done re-watching DD season 2 & it seems much better than I remember. It helps knowing in advance that 90% of what Elektra does is an act and has a purpose. She's much less aggravating the second time through.)
Jessica Jones on the other hand had the full package with both interesting characters *and* an engaging plot. Daredevil...was also a little unfocused at times but was saved by the Punisher & Kingpin subplots.
(Incidentally: just got done re-watching DD season 2 & it seems much better than I remember. It helps knowing in advance that 90% of what Elektra does is an act and has a purpose. She's much less aggravating the second time through.)
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I thought the reasons for Luke being more reactive than proactive was obvious; he was an escaped convict and didn't want the kind of attention attention that might send him back to the pen.
But I agree that DD and JJ had better villain characters. I liked Cottonmouth and thought his storyline was mishandled. I did like what they did with Mariah, the way they had her slowly emerge as a carbon copy of Mama Mable.
However, Diamondback was way miscast. The actor seemed to me to be simply presenting what was on the (script) page rather than creating a character. I liked the reason for his daddy issues, but I cared less for the way the character was made to express those issues.
I did enjoy Mike Colter's performance here much more than in JJ, where he seemed to just competently handle the role. But in "Luke" he gets to stretch out and show us more than stoic or angry guy. He even showed a bit of humor. Rosario Dawson was once again awesome. As was Alfre Woodard.
I did love the music. From Raphael Siddiq to (gasp) the septuagenarian Delphonics, with William Hart still rockin the falsetto. Seeing them was a a bit of a shock. How much do you want to bet, the Stylistics show up season 2?
But I agree that DD and JJ had better villain characters. I liked Cottonmouth and thought his storyline was mishandled. I did like what they did with Mariah, the way they had her slowly emerge as a carbon copy of Mama Mable.
However, Diamondback was way miscast. The actor seemed to me to be simply presenting what was on the (script) page rather than creating a character. I liked the reason for his daddy issues, but I cared less for the way the character was made to express those issues.
I did enjoy Mike Colter's performance here much more than in JJ, where he seemed to just competently handle the role. But in "Luke" he gets to stretch out and show us more than stoic or angry guy. He even showed a bit of humor. Rosario Dawson was once again awesome. As was Alfre Woodard.
I did love the music. From Raphael Siddiq to (gasp) the septuagenarian Delphonics, with William Hart still rockin the falsetto. Seeing them was a a bit of a shock. How much do you want to bet, the Stylistics show up season 2?
How so?
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Uh, because it is? That's like asking why water is wet.
I don't think Erik LaRay Harvey was miscast. While I agree a different actor may have made the dialogue sound better, I think the character was poorly written. I loved Harvey's performance in Boardwalk Empire and he worked well alongside Michael Kenneth Williams, just as I think he worked well with Mike Colter, too. The character suffered due to bad writing.
I was hoping you might have a bit more of a reason for making the statement than "it is because I said it is". But if that's all you've got, so be it.
Well I agree that the character was badly written but I also think the actor did a rather poor job of presenting the material he was given. I never saw any of "Boardwalk", but I had a feeling the actor had probably turned in some good performances elsewhere.
I found his performance in LC to be way over the top and rather superficial. Maybe he was being directed that way, and if that was the case then that's too bad. But I also have always believed that good acting many times can trump bad material and bad directing, although overcoming both is quite a bit to ask of any actor.
Just from what I saw and from the way the story unfolded, I would have cast Erik Harvey as Cottonmouth, Michael Williams as Diamondback. Williams' low key intensity interspersed with moments of physical and verbal savagery left me wanting more in all of his scenes, where Harvey's had me cringing.
I'm not saying Harvey is a bad actor, just that his performance in LC left a lot to be desired, especially when compared to the villain characters in JJ and DD.
Wow, I couldn't agree with this less if I tried. The plot in Jessica Jones is 4-6 episodes long. It forces it's characters to act in increasingly stupid ways with each succeeding episode in order to drag out it's full 13 episode order. As much as I liked Alias, and as much as I enjoyed Malcolm, Trish, and the obviously marvelous David Tennant's Kilgrave, I couldn't help but be bored out of my mind for long stretches. It's the only piece of the MCU that I have no interest in ever watching again.
Whereas I found Luke Cage to be captivating. Watching as the characters each circled their own past actions, and tried to come to grips with the difference between what they believed themselves to be, what society has made them, and what they were capable of. Even once the show switched to the, frankly over the top, Diamondback plotline, I couldn't stop watching to see how Shades and Mariah would react, or how Luke and Claire would confront this newest obstacle.
Not to mention watching Misty grapple with her own demons, which may have been one of my favorite portions of the show. She has her every support pulled out from under her, she's challenged in her assumptions at every turn, and she sees more and more how broken the system she's part of truly has become. She's the breakout star of the program, in my mind.