WB's Justice League 2017 movie pre-discussion thread

[Christopher]

When Supes wakes up, he will find himself in the new DC perkiverse, where even Batman smiles and cracks jokes. He will naturally follow suit. But there should be a period of transition from death to the new normal, and the black costume would make that more dramatically effective.

Clothes don't create drama. Writing and acting create drama. Just because the comic did something a certain way, that doesn't mean it's the only way it can work. The whole problem with Zack Snyder's films is that he's better at slavishly copying other people's work than he is at coming up with his own stories.

A lot of words considering you have no insider knowledge of these specific projects.

And why should those projects be exceptions to the industry-wide pattern? The only times that writers have any power in Hollywood features is when they're also directing or producing the films they write.

We do know that Nolan and Goyer went to WB with their idea for Man of Steel, Nolan was made producer of the project, he offered it to several directors until Snyder accepted and signed on to directed a script by Goyer and Nolan. This does not match with your idea of Snyder as some sort of demented supremo.

Actually MoS was the better of the two films by far. It would've been quite good if the third act hadn't degenerated into endless disaster porn. But JL most likely has more in common with BvS than it does with MoS, because MoS had Nolan's involvement and was made before the WB execs started pushing for its big crossover universe.

 

[Set Harth]

Superman vs. Zod lasts all of five and a half minutes.

 

[dahj]

^^
I don't think facts will get in the way of people who jump at every. single. mention. of DCEU Superman to voice their abject hate displeasure with Satan disguised as human ruining everything Snyder.

 

[Mudd]

Meh, I enjoyed both of Snyder's superhero movies - okay, all three - and certainly can't see anything being done on the WB as a template for a big-budget theatrical release.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

First look at Amber Heard as Mera.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/10/12/justice-league-exclusive-first-look-at-amber-heard-as-mera

 

[JD]

She looks great. I was pleasantly surprised to see they stuck fairly close to the comics costume. After seeing how different (but still very cool) their Aquaman was, I haven't been sure what to expect for Mera.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

She looks amazing!

 

[Set Harth]

That is like the hottest Thalmor I've ever seen!

 

[kirk55555]

Cool design, I thought they'd go with something really different because of how their Aquaman turned out, but its cool to see something close to the comics.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Justice League wrap party pictures from Iceland. Courtesy of Jason Mamoa, who brought all the beer. Speaks to fish and drinks like one too.

https://www.instagram.com/prideofgypsies/

 

[urbandefault]

I rewatched BvS today. It's good, and could have been great, but it tries to cram too much story into its runtime. I think it could have been two really outstanding movies if they'd just slowed down a bit.

I'm hoping Justice League takes the time to tell the story and not try to just do another kitchen sink.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I rewatched BvS today. It's good, and could have been great, but it tries to cram too much story into its runtime. I think it could have been two really outstanding movies if they'd just slowed down a bit.

I'm hoping Justice League takes the time to tell the story and not try to just do another kitchen sink.

BvS's problem was they had a great story but a bad story teller. Civil War had the same story as BvS and repeated a lot of the same things, but CACW had good story tellers. That's what WB should and likely fixed for JL. Since the film has finished production.

 

[Christopher]

BvS's problem was they had a great story but a bad story teller.

How did they have a good story? They had the potential for a good story -- Batman confronting Superman over the loss of life in Metropolis -- but they barely did anything with it and instead just jammed a dozen unconnected threads together. Lex Luthor had, like, six or seven different, mutually conflicting evil plots going on, and the fact that he had to force and trick and blackmail Superman and Batman into conflict was absurd when they already had a perfectly legitimate reason to come into conflict on their own. Heck, I wouldn't even say BvS has a story. A story has a beginning, a middle, and an end and a logical progression between them. This was like they cut up a dozen different stories and tossed them in a salad. It's one of the most narratively incoherent films I've ever seen. Even within a single scene, the dialogue tends to jump randomly from subject to subject.

 

[Set Harth]

Heck, I wouldn't even say BvS has a story.

"IT HAD NO PLOT!"



Well, I guess you gotta give people enough rope to hang themselves.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

How did they have a good story? They had the potential for a good story -- Batman confronting Superman over the loss of life in Metropolis -- but they barely did anything with it and instead just jammed a dozen unconnected threads together.

BvS had a good story, because Civil War had the exact same story. However, Civil War worked everywhere BvS didn't. Because of superior story telling. Both films use accountability and collateral damage as their hooks, but those angles become less and less a priority as the films go on. And it happens after similar situations. BvS: bombing of the capital and CACW: bombing of the U.N. After that, BvS becomes a showdown movie between Bats and Supes and a gathering of the Trinity against Doomsday. For CW, the film becomes a chase Bucky movie, showdown between the different Avengers and then fight between Tony, Steve and Bucky. The Sokovia Accords and unrestrained power of Superman aspects fall to the wayside, in favor of action movie shit.

Lex Luthor had, like, six or seven different, mutually conflicting evil plots going on, and the fact that he had to force and trick and blackmail Superman and Batman into conflict was absurd when they already had a perfectly legitimate reason to come into conflict on their own.

A lot like Zemo's plan. Which was equally convoluted and relied on so many coincidences and lapses in judgement by so many people in order to work.

Heck, I wouldn't even say BvS has a story. A story has a beginning, a middle, and an end and a logical progression between them. This was like they cut up a dozen different stories and tossed them in a salad. It's one of the most narratively incoherent films I've ever seen. Even within a single scene, the dialogue tends to jump randomly from subject to subject.

All a result of bad story telling. The biggest complaints about BvS were it's length, editing and that the film was boring. Snyder tried to direct a serious/more restrained film compared to his usual works, but maybe the script and screenplay weren't up to snuff. Goyer and Terrio would be responsible then.

 

[dahj]

However, Civil War worked everywhere BvS didn't. Because of superior story telling

I'm gonna have to disagree here, it is a different kind of storytelling, but neither is superior in and of itself.
CW tells the story in a pretty straightforward manner and the focus is placed on character interactions, while the focus in BvS is more on a mythological approach to storytelling, where characters interact with ideas and themes more so than with each other.
The more personal kind of storytelling is certainly more relatable(and apparently more popular) but on the other hand it's also much more safe, because it doesn't risk not hitting on the thematic elements. BvS obviously didn't hit with everybody, but personally I found it a much more interesting and engaging movie than CW.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

How did they have a good story? They had the potential for a good story -- Batman confronting Superman over the loss of life in Metropolis -- but they barely did anything with it and instead just jammed a dozen unconnected threads together. Lex Luthor had, like, six or seven different, mutually conflicting evil plots going on, and the fact that he had to force and trick and blackmail Superman and Batman into conflict was absurd when they already had a perfectly legitimate reason to come into conflict on their own. Heck, I wouldn't even say BvS has a story. A story has a beginning, a middle, and an end and a logical progression between them. This was like they cut up a dozen different stories and tossed them in a salad. It's one of the most narratively incoherent films I've ever seen. Even within a single scene, the dialogue tends to jump randomly from subject to subject.

Watch the Ultimate Edition cut of Batman v Superman. It's not perfect (CA:TCW isn't perfect either) but it has a much better, more coherent story, more clearly defined character motives and intentions and with the different editing, much better pacing.

 

[Christopher]

BvS had a good story, because Civil War had the exact same story.

No, it didn't. It had a similar premise, but a story is in the telling. A story is not merely a concept, but a narrative -- an organized report of a sequence of connected events. I do not agree that BvS actually constitutes a narrative. It's a bunch of barely connected threads hamfistedly slapped together and passed off as a narrative, but with no actual narrative logic or coherence. It's fragments of a bunch of different stories that conflict with and undermine each other.

And I don't think the similarities are all that strong. Civil War was about an established team of allies and friends being torn apart by a conflict of principle that grew personal, one that they failed to resolve even though they tried talking it out first. BvS was about two complete strangers with no prior relationship pitting themselves against each other and never really having a conversation. Story is ultimately about character, and the character dynamics in the two films could not be more different.

 

[Ovation]

You have, of course, seen the director's preferred cut of each film in order to make that judgement, right?

 

[Set Harth]

Isn't there only one cut of Civil War?