Poll Destination Star Trek Europe Convention 2016
- Thread starter Steve Roberts
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My second day, just as disorganised as yesterday. Again, the guests were fantastic, and doing their best to make up for the lack of proper event management - before one of the morning panels, Marina Sirtis was running about organising where people who were trying to get in could sit, because the staff were doing *nothing* (and she was brilliant on her panel).
In the afternoon, I attended some panels with Garret Wang, Robert Duncan McNeil, Jeffery Combs and Martha Hackett, who were really funny. I had no idea Garret Wang in particular was so entertaining, one of the standouts of the event. But yet again, they hadn't even been briefed as to what the panels were supposed to be about, so they made it up on the fly as a Q & A.
There was so much noise from elsewhere in the "hangar", at one point they stopped and started asking "whats going on over there?". There were several loud announcements that drowned them out, until they just stopped and waited for it to be over…(Garrett following the end of the announcement with "please mind the gap…" to get everyone laughing again..), and the guests repeatedly said the stage lighting was way too hot and bright, but no one running the event took any notice.
So in summary, great guests, a nice opportunity to see some of the stars in person, but I'll never attend anything run by these amateurs again.
In the afternoon, I attended some panels with Garret Wang, Robert Duncan McNeil, Jeffery Combs and Martha Hackett, who were really funny. I had no idea Garret Wang in particular was so entertaining, one of the standouts of the event. But yet again, they hadn't even been briefed as to what the panels were supposed to be about, so they made it up on the fly as a Q & A.
There was so much noise from elsewhere in the "hangar", at one point they stopped and started asking "whats going on over there?". There were several loud announcements that drowned them out, until they just stopped and waited for it to be over…(Garrett following the end of the announcement with "please mind the gap…" to get everyone laughing again..), and the guests repeatedly said the stage lighting was way too hot and bright, but no one running the event took any notice.
So in summary, great guests, a nice opportunity to see some of the stars in person, but I'll never attend anything run by these amateurs again.
£11 for a GLASS of WINE in the Hilton at the saturday night party...i kid you not
As was fully expected, about 11.30pm last night, the event Facebook page was fully cleansed of every complaint and negative comment about the event, and everyone who made them has been banned.
Given how much the event was not as advertised, I'll probably fill in the ASA complaint form. They can't do anything than publicly censure Joiner and Media 10, but that's better than nothing.
Given how much the event was not as advertised, I'll probably fill in the ASA complaint form. They can't do anything than publicly censure Joiner and Media 10, but that's better than nothing.
I made that pledge in 2009 and have not bee back since. But Jesus, don't say that to them otherwise they're rail against you wouldn't believe.
Disgusting. But as expected.
It amazes me they've been able to get away with acting like this for so many years.
it seems that these events are for the exclusive VIP packages -if you fork out the big bucks you'll have the experience promoted. if you just turn up on the day pay the entrance fee yes you'll be in the venue as captain kirk and might be able to glimpse him a couple of times but that's about it
I swore I would never go to a Showmasters event back in 2009 and have not been back since, but given that there are so few Trek conventions of any size these days I can understand why folks might feel they have a tough choice between missing out on the favourite Trek actors entirely or suffering the event.
Certainly when I was younger I probably would've still tried to go, just as I booked up to the third Stargazer event those many years ago.
It's just a damned shame that Creation (themselves not the best) felt it was unprofitable to stage conventions in the UK. The others have just been crooks who either run shit shows or are out for cash at all costs (or both). Not that I have ever been to Fedcon, but given the good reviews it's a shame they can't hold something in the UK.
Given the cost of some of the individual aspects I still think it's a rip off that you don't get more. Back in the day you used to get a lot more for your standard ticket to a convention or event (not that I have been to huge amounts). But it was very much Showmasters who dumped the convention model in the UK. Joiner used to run collector's fairs in his hometown which I used toi attend (it was my hometown as well), and he'd rope along folks like David Prowse. After a while he hit upon the idea of expanding this model by getting along more celebs and his events, now held in more places, were combined merchandise and celeb autograph selling shows, the idea obviously being that you get the punters through the doors with the celebs and then make money from the autographs AND the merch sellers. As time went on these events expanded into Collectormania, etc, and very much set an industry precedent in the UK where many shows would copy the basic model. In turn he would borrow from other events like the photoshoot idea.
Problem is though that Joiner hasn't really been involved in an out and out big convention all this time. He has totally missed the idea of fans getting together and doing things (or simply doesn't care about it). His conventions are nothing more than an expansion of his original Collectormania show. Get the punters in. Get them to pay entry, pay for the autos, pay for the photos, spend in the dealers room (all of which Joiner gets a cut) and in return they generously put on a costume display and a few talks. To me, that's not what conventions should be about. It's just exploitation.
Just got back from my first convention at Destination Star Trek Europe.
My thoughts were as follows.
Negatives
The queuing on friday before the event opened was insane. I thought I would be arriving with plenty of time to spare by getting there an hour and half before the doors opened. This was not to be the case. You would either have to have had a package to stand any chance of getting in at the start at 2pm, or I'm guessing have got there at about 9am.
Sound for the first couple of talks I attended at the start on saturday on the voyager stage was diabolical. For large parts of the "Two Daxs" and "Enterprise: a Look Back" I could not hear half of what was being said. Things did get better in the afternoon and sunday, but for an event that only lasts two and half days, it was unforgivable to have not got these problems resolved before opening.
The queue for the opening ceremony was anarchy. Nobody seemed to know where to go, least of all the staff, with one queue merging into another chaotically. Things got better saturday and sunday, once signs had been put up telling different ticket holders which entrance to use. Cordens would have been so cheap to provide to separate the lines though. I can't for the life of me understand why these were not in place.
The paid "50 Years Not Out: Celebrating the Legacy of Trek" talk was completely awful. The topic was so broad, and the guests so completely unsuited for the subject matter, it quickly descended into mindless platitudes. Chase Masterson seemed a lovely and sweet person, but what could she really know about the legacy of the show? She talked about her charity, which was very laudable I'm sure, but not very related to the subject at hand. Col Warden did his best to sound like he was interested in the franchise, when it was obvious he wasn't. Jeff Combs, a great and funny guy, but again not really in a position say anything of note. They even drafted in one of the trekkie girls from the excelsior stage. Needless to say she was ghastly.
I only went over to the excelsior stage once for a talk on trek in pop culture. The trekkie girls were hosting. The whole thing was a low rent mess. They couldn't find the clips to put up on the screen at first, they more or less said at the start they had no interest in what the talk was supposed to be about, they went off on tangents that led no-where. The screen was a small cheap old canvas type that wouldn't of looked out of place from my school 30+ years ago. As a result you couldn't see a thing on it. People were getting up from the audience constantly and leaving rather than witness any more of the car crash.
I don't really see a lot of point in paying insane sums for a signature on a bit of paper or too many photos with people you'll only have a few seconds to meet. I made two exceptions though for both Marina Sirtis and TNG Bridge shots, just so I could say I'd had the experience really. Plus I picked up a signature of Connor Trinneer for a friend. I decided to get all three of these out of the way on friday afternoon, so I could focus exclusively on talks the rest of the time. This seemed a very wise move when I saw the lines on saturday and sunday for those type of activities. Waiting times were far far less on the friday.
Christopher Lloyd came across a confused befuddled old man who'd just been let out of the local OAP home.
He didn't say a lot at the opening ceremony, and not much more when he did the free "movies to
series" talk on the sunday. The other guests were having to repeat and explain questions to him constantly.
The promised "Gaming Zone" was not there. I didn't have much interest in this to be honest, but I don't like the idea of not being given something I've been promised and paid for.
Official merchandise like t-shirts had nearly completely gone by opening on sunday. It might of been nice to have picked one up if they had still been in stock at that point. If Showmasters are the money grabbers they're made out to be by some, I would've expected them to have correctly ordered the right amount of stock to maximise their profits.
POSITIVES
I was never a fan of TOS, so my near whole experience of the event was TNG/DS9/VOY focused. The guests from these shows were nearly all completely wonderful, as well as effusive, friendly, approachable, articulate and funny. I could go on! Terry Farrell was a star, Garrett Wang an excellent moderator and guest, Marina Sirtis dry and down to earth, Gate Mcfadden a class act, Alexander Siddig interesting and knowledgeable.
I would not of bothered with the evening parties until I heard about the "Rat Pack" of Shimmerman, Combs, Biggs Grodenchik and Armstrong. I'm so glad I got a ticket for this now. I had to get the last train back into the city centre, but I still got to see nearly two hours of the the most hilarious, self deprecating songs imaginable. "How'd you solve a problem like Jadzia" was worth the price of admission alone. Drinks were pricey, but this is what you'd pay in most 4 star hotel bars.
The NEC and Birmingham was the perfect location. London may have made the event more high profile and prestigious in the past I suppose. But for the majority of British trekkies, holding it in the middle of the country made it a lot more accessible. Plus I could never of afforded London hotel prices. Birmingham was a lot more reasonably priced.
A lot of people complained about on site facilities, but if they'd gone just outside the building the huge Resort World complex was opposite, and full of eateries, shops, cash machines and much more besides.
The "Star Trek's Next 50" talk on the voyager stage was utterly brilliant. Host Garrett Wang had accurately realised in the first 10 seconds that the topic he'd been given was something neither he nor Robby McNeil, Martha Hackett, Jeff Combs or Eric Pierpoint were in any position to know anything about. So we were instead given funny stories, lots of McNeil/Wang banter, Janeway and Doctor impersonations by Garratt, and just generally encouraged to have a good time. With many mexican waves and laughs along the way.
In summary, would I go again?
I probably would!
But if I did it would be only on the strength of the guests, and what great people most of them turned out to be, rather than any organisational flare on the part of Showmasters. They turned out to be average at best and awful at worst.
My thoughts were as follows.
Negatives
The queuing on friday before the event opened was insane. I thought I would be arriving with plenty of time to spare by getting there an hour and half before the doors opened. This was not to be the case. You would either have to have had a package to stand any chance of getting in at the start at 2pm, or I'm guessing have got there at about 9am.
Sound for the first couple of talks I attended at the start on saturday on the voyager stage was diabolical. For large parts of the "Two Daxs" and "Enterprise: a Look Back" I could not hear half of what was being said. Things did get better in the afternoon and sunday, but for an event that only lasts two and half days, it was unforgivable to have not got these problems resolved before opening.
The queue for the opening ceremony was anarchy. Nobody seemed to know where to go, least of all the staff, with one queue merging into another chaotically. Things got better saturday and sunday, once signs had been put up telling different ticket holders which entrance to use. Cordens would have been so cheap to provide to separate the lines though. I can't for the life of me understand why these were not in place.
The paid "50 Years Not Out: Celebrating the Legacy of Trek" talk was completely awful. The topic was so broad, and the guests so completely unsuited for the subject matter, it quickly descended into mindless platitudes. Chase Masterson seemed a lovely and sweet person, but what could she really know about the legacy of the show? She talked about her charity, which was very laudable I'm sure, but not very related to the subject at hand. Col Warden did his best to sound like he was interested in the franchise, when it was obvious he wasn't. Jeff Combs, a great and funny guy, but again not really in a position say anything of note. They even drafted in one of the trekkie girls from the excelsior stage. Needless to say she was ghastly.
I only went over to the excelsior stage once for a talk on trek in pop culture. The trekkie girls were hosting. The whole thing was a low rent mess. They couldn't find the clips to put up on the screen at first, they more or less said at the start they had no interest in what the talk was supposed to be about, they went off on tangents that led no-where. The screen was a small cheap old canvas type that wouldn't of looked out of place from my school 30+ years ago. As a result you couldn't see a thing on it. People were getting up from the audience constantly and leaving rather than witness any more of the car crash.
I don't really see a lot of point in paying insane sums for a signature on a bit of paper or too many photos with people you'll only have a few seconds to meet. I made two exceptions though for both Marina Sirtis and TNG Bridge shots, just so I could say I'd had the experience really. Plus I picked up a signature of Connor Trinneer for a friend. I decided to get all three of these out of the way on friday afternoon, so I could focus exclusively on talks the rest of the time. This seemed a very wise move when I saw the lines on saturday and sunday for those type of activities. Waiting times were far far less on the friday.
Christopher Lloyd came across a confused befuddled old man who'd just been let out of the local OAP home.
He didn't say a lot at the opening ceremony, and not much more when he did the free "movies to
series" talk on the sunday. The other guests were having to repeat and explain questions to him constantly.
The promised "Gaming Zone" was not there. I didn't have much interest in this to be honest, but I don't like the idea of not being given something I've been promised and paid for.
Official merchandise like t-shirts had nearly completely gone by opening on sunday. It might of been nice to have picked one up if they had still been in stock at that point. If Showmasters are the money grabbers they're made out to be by some, I would've expected them to have correctly ordered the right amount of stock to maximise their profits.
POSITIVES
I was never a fan of TOS, so my near whole experience of the event was TNG/DS9/VOY focused. The guests from these shows were nearly all completely wonderful, as well as effusive, friendly, approachable, articulate and funny. I could go on! Terry Farrell was a star, Garrett Wang an excellent moderator and guest, Marina Sirtis dry and down to earth, Gate Mcfadden a class act, Alexander Siddig interesting and knowledgeable.
I would not of bothered with the evening parties until I heard about the "Rat Pack" of Shimmerman, Combs, Biggs Grodenchik and Armstrong. I'm so glad I got a ticket for this now. I had to get the last train back into the city centre, but I still got to see nearly two hours of the the most hilarious, self deprecating songs imaginable. "How'd you solve a problem like Jadzia" was worth the price of admission alone. Drinks were pricey, but this is what you'd pay in most 4 star hotel bars.
The NEC and Birmingham was the perfect location. London may have made the event more high profile and prestigious in the past I suppose. But for the majority of British trekkies, holding it in the middle of the country made it a lot more accessible. Plus I could never of afforded London hotel prices. Birmingham was a lot more reasonably priced.
A lot of people complained about on site facilities, but if they'd gone just outside the building the huge Resort World complex was opposite, and full of eateries, shops, cash machines and much more besides.
The "Star Trek's Next 50" talk on the voyager stage was utterly brilliant. Host Garrett Wang had accurately realised in the first 10 seconds that the topic he'd been given was something neither he nor Robby McNeil, Martha Hackett, Jeff Combs or Eric Pierpoint were in any position to know anything about. So we were instead given funny stories, lots of McNeil/Wang banter, Janeway and Doctor impersonations by Garratt, and just generally encouraged to have a good time. With many mexican waves and laughs along the way.
In summary, would I go again?
I probably would!
But if I did it would be only on the strength of the guests, and what great people most of them turned out to be, rather than any organisational flare on the part of Showmasters. They turned out to be average at best and awful at worst.
This was exactly the problem I had. I didn't want to go at all. I knew it would be shit beforehand, and thanks to the live video streamed floor walk that was put on Facebook by 2.30pm on Friday, I was sadly proved right.
Was that the one at Wembley Arena in the mid 90s where the venue wouldn't open because it hadn't been paid? All the guests and fans turned up but couldn't get in. Was long before my event days, but I remember reading about it in the papers.
To be fair to Creation, I was at their last London show, and I don't blame them for not coming back. 200 people max all day on the Saturday for Colm Meaney. Even less the day before for George and Walter. Turnout at the 2005 event with Frakes and Spiner wasn't great either. It's disgusting that people throw their money at Joiner with his well known reputation, but won't go to a properly structured Creation event where everyone gets the same thing at the same time, instead of the terribly organised choose what you want and pay for it each time scam that Joiner runs.
Fedcon tried to run a UK event about 10 years ago. Unfortunately, guess who they got in to bed with.
TBH, it doesn't reflect well on Fedcon that they can't come to the UK and run an event on their own. Hilton Metropole London or Birmingham, block book hotel rooms at an affordable rate for attendees, get 6 or 7 decent guests in over a weekend. . .sorted. After all, it's only what they do very successfully in Germany.
If Van Citters wasn't in bed with Joiner and Media 10, as he so clearly must be, CBS could've paid Creation to come back here to put on a decent smaller scale Vegas clone event, but no, Van Citters and CBS would rather do the whole thing brown envelope style. It was only a month ago that Media 10 actually appeared on the CBS Star Trek licencee list. And guess who told Van Citters that neither of the organisers for one of their official events was on the licencee list? Yup. Not so much as a thank you. Now who reckons that Media 10 didn't have a licence for the first 7 months they were supposed to be running DSTE? And Van Citters did nothing about it until someone noticed. I don't believe for one moment it was an accidental omission.
If Van Citters wasn't in bed with Joiner and Media 10, as he so clearly must be, CBS could've paid Creation to come back here to put on a decent smaller scale Vegas clone event, but no, Van Citters and CBS would rather do the whole thing brown envelope style. It was only a month ago that Media 10 actually appeared on the CBS Star Trek licencee list. And guess who told Van Citters that neither of the organisers for one of their official events was on the licencee list? Yup. Not so much as a thank you. Now who reckons that Media 10 didn't have a licence for the first 7 months they were supposed to be running DSTE? And Van Citters did nothing about it until someone noticed. I don't believe for one moment it was an accidental omission.
Fedcon is not the only con they do per year. In the past years there also was Ring Con and Hobbit Con and now they also have a Comic Con. They're busy.
You don't need to be afraid of it being a German con. It's an European con. It's all done in English. Chase was the MOC this year. Come over and have fun! There are people coming from as far as Japan and the USA. One time they welcomed each country in the opening ceremony and I was surprised how many different there were. And with each mentioning the fans from that country would cheer. It was really nice.
They could be busy in the UK, which happens to be the biggest market in the world for Star Trek outside of the US. It's not as if there isn't the demand here for a properly run and affordable Star Trek convention. Of course the only problem with Fedcon trying to run a UK event is that Joiner would immediately start threatening them with the heavy mob.
I've done enough events and cons to know that queues are always an issue, and things tend to get a little smoother over the weekend due to a number of factors such as
Fewer people (often on a Sunday)
How something that was done one day is changed the following day because it didn't work.
Many if not most try and get the big names on the first day even if they are there the entire weekend.
Fewer people (often on a Sunday)
How something that was done one day is changed the following day because it didn't work.
Many if not most try and get the big names on the first day even if they are there the entire weekend.
It's perfectly logical to me. It's not just a case of book it and they will come - there's a lot of ground work to cover. Promoting in a known area is one thing, promoting somewhere you don't know as well from another country is extremely difficult.
I promoted in one region and tried promoting in another - different methods and business models, but it didn't take long to realise that going out of my comfort zone into unfamiliar territory wouldn't end well (and it didn't)
The best way forward is to partner up with someone that isn't Joiner or connected to him - and I've seen a successful and passionate event promoter comment (I believe he was in attendance - by comments, he is far from impressed) on it that I'm sure would be interested in taking up the mantle.
Not everything can be fixed with a magic wand, but it stuns me that the same problems arise over and over again with the same company. Other orginisations have had issues, but evolved with them.
One in particular began events local to me a few years back. Year one: Heavy queuing and overcrowding issues. Year two? They fixed it by reorganising the system, getting more hands on deck and booking more space. It didn't stop - the event constantly evolved in layout and orginisation to better meet the needs of the customers.
In contrast Showmasters just seems to get worse. The London events are rife with (justifiable) complaints. They get ignored, deleted and next year it's a repeat. No learning, no evolution - just the focus on the people happy to grin and bear it.
I won't say Trek fans deserve better as thats a bit self serving
But the DSTE measure of success seems to be "Look at the money we made!" - imagine how much money they could make now, and in the future, if people went to the event and actually enjoyed themselves?- Status