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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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Smoked Salmon said:
I'm not taking about employment law. I'm talking about consumer law. I think the issue I have is that Peters is claiming that he is not in breach of Kickstarter's terms. Having read read them I disagree with that. English consumer law has certain protections in that regard that Are a more straight forward remedy than a standard contractual dispute. I was just wondering with the Californian position was.

I think this is essentially a form of blackmail and the very attempt to advance it by someone who has legal training is offensive. It feels like silent censorship by way of a form of entrapment. I hope his lawyers have not advised it because I consider it unethical.
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I think what @jespah is suggesting: there are no laws regarding NDAs in terms of consumer law. Here, most NDAs are around employment. That's why she was looking at that.

I can't imagine a court would let Peters NDA stand. It's just an intimidation tactic.
Of course, now that it's out in the open the shit he's trying to pull...
 
jespah said:
FYI California law (so far as I can see) mainly talks about nondisclosures in the context of employment. However, generic NDAs aren't going to work. See: http://www.yourlegalcorner.com/articles.asp?id=106&cat=emp
The 'agreement' (ha; it's not an agreement. It's intended to be a contract of adhesion, e. g. a non-negotiated document where one side dictates terms and the other side is forced to agree or walk)
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Well now, this is very interesting to me. This also sounds like lease agreements I've seen: 'You need this, I have it, if you do anything to my [leased object] you agree to be totally responsible for cost and consequences incurred, If the [leased object] you got from me causes harm or damage to you or your anything you agree to be totally responsible for costs incurred and agree to release me, the leasor, from all liability and responsibility resulting from failure of my product.'

Would... does... this kind of contract hold up in US courts?
 
ThankYouGeneR said:
Well now, this is very interesting to me. This also sounds like lease agreements I've seen: 'You need this, I have it, if you do anything to my [leased object] you agree to be totally responsible for cost and consequences incurred, If the [leased object] you got from me causes harm or damage to you or your anything you agree to be totally responsible for costs incurred and agree to release me, the leasor, from all liability and responsibility resulting from failure of my product.'

Would... does... this kind of contract hold up in US courts?
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Stuff like this (IE "If you buy my product/accept my terms you can't say anything negative...") has already been declared unconstitutional with regard to Terms of Service agreements; so I doubt the Axanar Refund NDA would hold up either.
 
When one donates to a start-up production they need to prepare to end up disappointed. It's hard to say how many of star-ups are outright scams verses the ones that just didn't work out.
Peters has divided the Star Trek audience into donors and haters, why he would do this I haven't a clue. Donors are supporters of his cause, haters warn others that this Axanar phenomenon is simply a $1.5 million dollar scam.
Now it appears that former donors have discovered they have become involved in a scam and I'd bet it's not their $15 -$25 dollars they want back, it's their moral values at stake they are attempting to recover.
I see this NDA as an affirmation that everything done here, has been perpetrated to use social fundraisers, Star Trek fans, Star Trek intellectual property and the good will of the community for a single goal, enrich the pockets of a few people.
It's sad now that "The LFIM" has treated his donors, his supporters as nothing but haters. This is the actions of a very small, sad, lonely man.
 
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Wow, that NDA for refund thing is bullshit. It basically feels like he's holding the donor's money hostage.
If I was a donor and got the NDA when I asked for a refund, I think I'd be more pissed about the NDA than about not getting my money back.
 
urbandefault said:
I think a few notes from donors saying they'll go to the California AG might backpedal that NDA.
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I've been in business for a lot of decades, this is not how you handle an unhappy "customer/donors"
You sit down and resolve the issue because if that NDA is sent to the wrong person, that person just might be going to the state board of equalization for one. The sender of that notice along with every person they have done business with will be tied up in unannounced audits over the next months.
I'm sure in the end all of Peters' businesses, all the people he's done business with have crossed every "T" and dotted every "I" while paying every last penny of tax on the hundreds of thousands of dollars they have spent or received. It doesn't matter how well you've keep records, unlike the State income tax board, the board of equalization comes to you. LFIM well be receiving calls of thanks from all his friends and business partners as their lives are disrupted 5 - 10 days at a time.
Our state AG is running for a higher office, a complaint would probably sit in the round file.
 
dmac said:
I've been in business for a lot of decades, this is not how you handle an unhappy "customer/donors"
You sit down and resolve the issue because if that NDA is sent to the wrong person, that person just might be going to the state board of equalization for one. The sender of that notice along with every person they have done business with will be tied up in unannounced audits over the next months.
I'm sure in the end all of Peters' businesses, all the people he's done business with have crossed every "T" and dotted every "I" while paying every last penny of tax on the hundreds of thousands of dollars they have spent or received. It doesn't matter how well you've keep records, unlike the State income tax board, the board of equalization comes to you. LFIM well be receiving calls of thanks from all his friends and business partners as their lives are disrupted 5 - 10 days at a time.
Our state AG is running for a higher office, a complaint would probably sit in the round file.
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Never heard of the "Board of Equalization" but it sounds real California to me. :lol:

Whatever it takes to (legally) bring down this two bit grifter is just fine with me.
 
Professor Zoom said:
I think what @jespah is suggesting: there are no laws regarding NDAs in terms of consumer law. Here, most NDAs are around employment. That's why she was looking at that.

I can't imagine a court would let Peters NDA stand. It's just an intimidation tactic.
Of course, now that it's out in the open the shit he's trying to pull...
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Yes, I know. This is the point.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
I'm not taking about employment law. I'm talking about consumer law. I think the issue I have is that Peters is claiming that he is not in breach of Kickstarter's terms. Having read read them I disagree with that. English consumer law has certain protections in that regard that Are a more straight forward remedy than a standard contractual dispute. I was just wondering with the Californian position was.

I think this is essentially a form of blackmail and the very attempt to advance it by someone who has legal training is offensive. It feels like silent censorship by way of a form of entrapment. I hope his lawyers have not advised it because I consider it unethical.
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Oh, I know you mean consumer law. I honestly could not find an instance of California consumer law dealing with NDAs (perhaps someone with better Google-Fu than me can). The point being, defendant's use of an NDA is utterly misplaced.

Edit: oops, we crossposted @Smoked Salmon
 
urbandefault said:
Never heard of the "Board of Equalization" but it sounds real California to me. :lol:

Whatever it takes to (legally) bring down this two bit grifter is just fine with me.
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If you ever visit our state and pay a sales tax the BOE insures the ten cents is collected and paid.
They also monitor the Resale Permits for when a business buys product for resale, many new companies assume this is a license to purchase materials for inhouse use and avoid the sales tax.
When your entertaining 5 of these guys who are picking your inventory, bringing in a $.35 cent box and asking for the complete money trail to how that box came to be in your plant, you better have a good understanding of how your factory operates. If that box is for inhouse use you have to show where the tax was paid. If it is a component of a finished product, it's allowable to have the purchase listed on your resale license. There are so few factories left in the State that I've had BOE auditors without a complete understanding of a component purchase such as "work in progress" or "bill of materials". I've been audited 8 times since I moved the company back to the state in the mid 80's, each time due to another company which failed the audit that I either bought or sold to. It starts like a FBI raid, half the time your factory is shut down for the duration, everything is questioned and if you did a good job, you might get a "See ya next time" as they leave.
What's the AG going to do, send a letter to knock it off?
 
dmac said:
If you ever visit our state and pay a sales tax the BOE insures the ten cents is collected and paid.
They also monitor the Resale Permits for when a business buys product for resale, many new companies assume this is a license to purchase materials for inhouse use and avoid the sales tax.
When your entertaining 5 of these guys who are picking your inventory, bringing in a $.35 cent box and asking for the complete money trail to how that box came to be in your plant, you better have a good understanding of how your factory operates. If that box is for inhouse use you have to show where the tax was paid. If it is a component of a finished product, it's allowable to have the purchase listed on your resale license. There are so few factories left in the State that I've had BOE auditors without a complete understanding of a component purchase such as "work in progress" or "bill of materials". I've been audited 8 times since I moved the company back to the state in the mid 80's, each time due to another company which failed the audit that I either bought or sold to. It starts like a FBI raid, half the time your factory is shut down for the duration, everything is questioned and if you did a good job, you might get a "See ya next time" as they leave.
What's the AG going to do, send a letter to knock it off?
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Ok, that's how CA operates. My point was that donors could notify "the proper authority" and make the NDA go away.

I have a sales tax permit in my state, but I always just pay the tax at point of sale for products and supplies I will use in-house. Much easier for my tiny little operation. You're right though, some people don't understand the concept that tax will be paid, regardless of who pays it.
 
urbandefault said:
Ok, that's how CA operates. My point was that donors could notify "the proper authority" and make the NDA go away.

I have a sales tax permit in my state, but I always just pay the tax at point of sale for products and supplies I will use in-house. Much easier for my tiny little operation. You're right though, some people don't understand the concept that tax will be paid, regardless of who pays it.
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The BOE might not be the "Proper authority" and I'm sure Axanar keeps perfect records by those statements they have released (NOT) but it would be the funnest to watch.
Running an auction house I would think he used a resale license quite often unless everything was on consignment.
I don't have a clue how he ran his businesses and don't really care to study how failures operate.
 
Professor Zoom said:
And what if someone raises 10s of thousands of dollars off of people by claiming its their game system? Would that be right?
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Did someone say "Dollars"?

8799023.jpg


Neil

P.S. Cash has also been credited as "Bill Dollars". Get it?
 
Gotta admire Mr. Ryan! Of course I would have been tempted to tell LFIM to use that NDA for toilet paper and then shove it all the way back up his ass. But I think Mr. Ryan's response was better. :techman:
 
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