The Chase and the Founders?
- Thread starter φ of π
- Start date
Not in the TV series; nor Archer's Timeline Spinsters.
But you can see the resemblance. Maybe the Founders had run-ins with those Solids a long time ago? Of course, Odo took the form in complete isolation; so probably DS9's expert shape-shifting Founders took on his characteristics so everyone could better identify him as one of Theirs.
But you can see the resemblance. Maybe the Founders had run-ins with those Solids a long time ago? Of course, Odo took the form in complete isolation; so probably DS9's expert shape-shifting Founders took on his characteristics so everyone could better identify him as one of Theirs.
Last edited:
I think it's unlikely. 4 billion years is an incredible amount of time. They could have grown into something way beyond the likes of the Q for all I know, or they could simply have gotten extinct. Both fates probably would be far more likely than them still mucking around in the galaxy, wearing faces that still look a lot like those in an extremely ancient recording 
Last edited:
Well, the connection is being made because the same actress who played the protohuman played the head Founder in DS9, and they look similar because the makeup and prosthetics were similar.
The problem with this theory, however, is that the head Founder (and all the Founders, really) only took that form because they were mimicking Odo, so it was never their "true" form to begin with.
The appearance of Odo and the Founders which looked like him could be some sort of default humanoid setting they use- perhaps just by innate reflex. It takes less effort to hold the puttyman shape than maintaining a complete duplicate of a detailed Klingon with all the fine detail.
Personally I think it is more of a coincidence with the resemblance to the 'original' humanoid we saw in 'The Chase'- in that episode they were also trying to find a generic default humanoid makeup which did not have and distinguishing characteristics unique to any particular race.
Personally I think it is more of a coincidence with the resemblance to the 'original' humanoid we saw in 'The Chase'- in that episode they were also trying to find a generic default humanoid makeup which did not have and distinguishing characteristics unique to any particular race.
Do you mean that the Founders were trying to be politically correct, not wanting to possibly offend any alien species that they may encounter?
then why were they in that form when there was no possibility of Odo being around?
That makes the most sense, and it's close to what I've always assumed. It's less the default, and more the characteristics shared by all the species they seeded. "The face of God" to be more poetic.
Because it was easier on the VFX budget instead of showing CGI blobs all the time.
No- the section you quoted related to the 'original' as seen in the recording in 'The Chase'. The makeup artists tried to create an ultimate generic humanoid from which all the later differentiation evolve.
The Founders generic default humanoid was a simplified shape which had all the right parts but was lacking in detail which took less effort to use and maintain. I seriously doubt any consideration to political correctness was considered.
It also makes sense for being in that form when dealing with others. Other beings grow accustomed to seeing the Founders in that default form and that makes them easier to deceive when they adopt the form precisely of a person. If you are used to always assuming the Founders look like a putty face then you are not likely to think the angry sweating Klingon next to you might be one of them.
Unlikely, especially as the Founders are from the Gamma Quadrant, and most if not all the seeding took place in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Any seeding that came close or even got into either the Gamma or Delta Quadrants skirted the edges due to the Progenitors having a slightly difference assignation for which quadrant is which.
Why just there? It would make more sense for the Progenitors to have seeded the entire galaxy, especially seeing how there's so many humanoids out in the Delta and Gamma Quadrants as well.
I don't think the Founders were seeded- they are too alien. They can imitate a humanoid, specific or generic, but their natural state is liquid. IIRC they were persecuted by solids which gave them initial contact with the humanoid configuration and they adopted a generic version of that when dealing with them when they became the dominion.
I do think the Progenitors seeded a vast section of our galaxy though out the different quadrants. Evidence of them was only discovered in Alpha & Beta just because that is where most of the Trek universe has known, but finding the same humanoid pattern in the Delta as well makes me think they went through there as well. In the Delta Quadrant it was not just along Voyager's path, the Borg assimilated mostly humanoids (that we saw) and they ranged far.
The Founders were Solids who evolved into their Shapeshifter forms, they weren't always like that.
The common ancestry is probably why it's so easy for the Borg to assimilate people, because of the commonalities in genetics. When they ran into something not created by the Progenitors (the 8472 aliens) they couldn't assimilate them.
Interesting quote from Ron Moore about the Founders' apperance.
Ron Moore explained, "The Founders [...] modeled their look after Odo. They did this initially as a compliment and way of reaching out to their long-lost Changeling, and later they kept doing it as a dig and reminder to him of his own limitations.
Ron Moore explained, "The Founders [...] modeled their look after Odo. They did this initially as a compliment and way of reaching out to their long-lost Changeling, and later they kept doing it as a dig and reminder to him of his own limitations.
I like to think Odo's default shape is based on some sort of "genetic memory" of his ancestors from billions of years ago.
I don't think it's a stretch to say that some beings evolve into non-corporeal energy-based lifeforms, and some evolve into fluidic lifeforms who can shunt some of their mass into subspace.
I don't think it's a stretch to say that some beings evolve into non-corporeal energy-based lifeforms, and some evolve into fluidic lifeforms who can shunt some of their mass into subspace.
You're both forgetting that first, we were shown a graphic of the seeding pattern the Progenitors used, a spiral moving across the galaxy, and across the Alpha and Beta quadrants. Once again, it may have touched the Gamma and/or Delta quadrants, but only just. And that spiral pattern, once it was figured out, led our heroes to every last world that had been seeded that had not yet been found. Every last one, which was needed to find the entire message.
If the Progenitors left their seeds anywhere else in the galaxy, it was part of a separate spiral, and had a separate message. It may have been the same message as far as wording or their hope for peaceful co-existence, but it wasn't the message they left for our heroes to find. This, actually, is my head-canon for why so many Delta and Gamma Quadrant species have the same hominid appearance that we're so familiar with in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. There was more than one group of Progenitors, and each one had the seeds, and the message that they wanted to pass on. But each group acted on their own, and spread the seeds where they chose, not as part of a master plan.
Similar threads
