Star Wars Books Thread

[WebLurker]

Do they get into the time she spent at the Jedi Academy before being mind-wiped?

No, everything is after she was left on Jakku. In fact, the Survival Guide has Rey specifically say that she doesn't remember anything about her pre-Jakku life, much less being left there in the first place.

(For what it's worth, the theory that Rey is a former Jedi student doesn't seem very likely, per her age of nineteen in Force Awakens and the novel Bloodline.)

 

[JD]

I thought the movie made that pretty clear. If she remembered things, she probably would have known who her family was and why they left her on Jakku, neither of which she appeared to know.

 

[Reverend]

Strictly speaking it's ambiguous. Though taken at face value what is seen in the movie we have no reason to think she doesn't remember her family. It's only us the audience who aren't in on that particular piece of information. Indeed, you'd think if she really doesn't remember anything then she wouldn't be quite so adamant about having to wait for them to come back.

"Who are you waiting for exactly?"
"My family. They'll come for eventually."
"The family you don't remember?"
"Yeah."
"OK....why exactly?"
"Reasons!"

 

[WebLurker]

Strictly speaking it's ambiguous. Though taken at face value what is seen in the movie we have no reason to think she doesn't remember her family. It's only us the audience who aren't in on that particular piece of information. Indeed, you'd think if she really doesn't remember anything then she wouldn't be quite so adamant about having to wait for them to come back.

"Who are you waiting for exactly?"
"My family. They'll come for eventually."
"The family you don't remember?"
"Yeah."
"OK....why exactly?"
"Reasons!"

Okay, time to get geeky! Here's some of the relevant quotes from the tie-ins on the subject.

Rey's Survival Guide:

I've been here my whole life, scratching out a living with the lost and the broken. I don't know how I got here or why. But I know that it was a mistake -- and that somebody out there will make things right, someday.

Rey reiterates that her being here is a mistake, although she doesn't explain why (considering the point of this book is that it's a guide Rey wrote in her spare time with the idea that other stranded scavengers could use it, it makes sense that she would be cagey, considering that in the movie, she's shown to be reluctant to discuss it with others).

Now, I do see your point, but it's possible that Rey's memories are better than she thinks:

Before the Awakening:

She half-dreamt of being warm, of being small, lost memories trying to swim to the surface. (p. 109)

Force Awakens junior novelization:

Stay here. I'll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise.

"Yes, I'm here, I'm here!" Rey shouted. Her eyes popped open and she looked about the walker....

As always, there was no figure to the voice.

She'd been haunted by a dream. Or a nightmare. At this point in her life, she couldn't decide what it was. All she knew was that the voice came and went as it pleased, sometimes staying absent for months. But when she least expected it, the voice would return, never leaving her alone permanently. Never. (Ch. 5, p. 35)

The novelization uses the "stay here, I'll come back" voice in place of Rey as a child watching the ship fly away in the Force vision, so we can determine that Rey's earlier dream here was of her parents (or whatever guardian in question) leaving her on Jakku. (If accurate, it also strongly suggests that the family/guardians loved her and were going to come back for her, so the reason they didn't would seem to be very dire.)

The fact that Rey has some vague fragments of memories of her pre-Jakku life and a recurring dream of being left there as a child (Force-induced, perhaps?), it could very well be this's what she was basing her beliefs about her family coming back on, even if only subconsciously.

Even if you don't buy that, an important part of Rey's story is that she's deliberately fooling herself about her family coming back, and needs to confront that and accept the truth. So, it doesn't need to be based on anything more that wishful thinking on Rey's part.

 

[Reverend]

My read on it is that her recollections and comprehension of the event are basically those of a child, since that's how young she was when it happened.
At the time, young Rey didn't know why they were on Jakku and the only way she could process the betrayal of her family abandoning her was as a "mistake". Like they took off not knowing she wasn't back on the ship and will come back as soon as they realise. She'd hold onto that belief well past the point of logic because it's a child's most desperate hope and for most of her life, the only thing that kept her going. As we see in the movie, Maz quickly see's though this self deception. Indeed it doesn't take much for Rey to admit she's been lying to herself this whole time.

It's perfectly normal for early memories to fade over time into just vague impression, even traumatic ones. You don't need memories to be erased or for there to be some big secret for that to happen.

 

[WebLurker]

My read on it is that her recollections and comprehension of the event are basically those of a child, since that's how young she was when it happened.
At the time, young Rey didn't know why they were on Jakku and the only way she could process the betrayal of her family abandoning her was as a "mistake". Like they took off not knowing she wasn't back on the ship and will come back as soon as they realise.

Could be. As mentioned before, the tie-ins do establish that she doesn't actually remember what happened (at least not consciously), but that is an interesting way of looking at it, esp. if that's how she did process that and still kept that even if her actual memories of the incident had faded by the time of the movies.

She'd hold onto that belief well past the point of logic because it's a child's most desperate hope and for most of her life, the only thing that kept her going.

I actually took that to be the meaning, too.

As we see in the movie, Maz quickly see's though this self deception. Indeed it doesn't take much for Rey to admit she's been lying to herself this whole time.

Well, maybe. Rey is an emotional mess at the point where she needs to face that particular truth. In fact, after having Finn just leave her (which the novelizations state she was taking very hard and strongly influencing her emotional state through the rest of the Takodana scenes), being urged to follow the Force (which just gave her an upsetting vision) and being told that she's fooling herself about her family, all in quick succession, her first inclination is to run off.

We don't exactly see her make peace with it (although one of the novelizations does outright say that Finn coming for her at Starkiller Base gave her some closure on this part of her life, albeit her still wanting to find them somehow).

It's perfectly normal for early memories to fade over time into just vague impression, even traumatic ones. You don't need memories to be erased or for there to be some big secret for that to happen.

I never thought that Rey had her memories erased. I aways assumed that she didn't remember what happened (beyond the vague impressions of something before Jakku and whatever that dream told her about what her guardian told her before leaving), just because she was so young when it happened.

 

[Reverend]

Could be. As mentioned before, the tie-ins do establish that she doesn't actually remember what happened (at least not consciously), but that is an interesting way of looking at it, esp. if that's how she did process that and still kept that even if her actual memories of the incident had faded by the time of the movies.

I know all the new publications are in theory considered canon, but I'm hesitant to take sub-textual cues about a main character's motivation from a tie-in book meant for children as anything close to authoritative.

Well, maybe. Rey is an emotional mess at the point where she needs to face that particular truth. In fact, after having Finn just leave her (which the novelizations state she was taking very hard and strongly influencing her emotional state through the rest of the Takodana scenes), being urged to follow the Force (which just gave her an upsetting vision) and being told that she's fooling herself about her family, all in quick succession, her first inclination is to run off.

There's a lot of different things going on in that scene, but I don't think it was either Finn leaving or Maz seeing through her self deception is what made her run. It was the vision. Not necessarily the content but just the fact that it happened at all. It freaked her out.

There is some related subtext here since right after admitting to herself that she's in denial about her parents, she turns right around and runs headlong into denying her true nature. Not because she hasn't fully come to grips with her parents abandoning her, but simply because she's afraid of the sabre and the fear and confusion it represents.
No question her defences were down in that moment but that's more a mitigating factor than a causal one.

If you watch how the scene between them plays out, Rey clearly accepts what Maz says about her family and even about Luke. It's only when Maz tells her to take the sabre that Rey recoils.

I never thought that Rey had her memories erased. I aways assumed that she didn't remember what happened (beyond the vague impressions of something before Jakku and whatever that dream told her about what her guardian told her before leaving), just because she was so young when it happened.

I know, I was just heading off any theories about her being Kylo's sister or Luke's daughter or a brain-wiped padawan, since some people still seem to genuinely buy into those ideas and they generally hinge on her memory being messed with.

 

[JD]

Strictly speaking it's ambiguous. Though taken at face value what is seen in the movie we have no reason to think she doesn't remember her family. It's only us the audience who aren't in on that particular piece of information. Indeed, you'd think if she really doesn't remember anything then she wouldn't be quite so adamant about having to wait for them to come back.

"Who are you waiting for exactly?"
"My family. They'll come for eventually."
"The family you don't remember?"
"Yeah."
"OK....why exactly?"
"Reasons!"

I guess I just took all of the vagueness as meaning that she didn't remember who they were, and that the bit we saw in the flashback was all she remembered of them.
I would have also thought if she knew who they were she would have made some kind of an effort to either track them down herself, or at least get a message to them.

 

[Reverend]

I guess I just took all of the vagueness as meaning that she didn't remember who they were, and that the bit we saw in the flashback was all she remembered of them.
I would have also thought if she knew who they were she would have made some kind of an effort to either track them down herself, or at least get a message to them.

Well there's a bit of a difference between a child *knowing* her parents and having their full names and contact details. I don't think she'd have a lot of luck looking up "mummy" and "daddy" in the holonet directory.

She may or made not have tried anyway, but consider her situation. She's essentially marooned on a backwater which probably doesn't have much of anything in the way of communications or data-net infrastructure. Plus she has to put in a full day's back-breaking work just to make enough to be able to feed herself.
So not a lot of free time to dedicate to hunting them down. She could have scrimped and scraped enough together for a whole year to rent time on some trader's holo-com for a few hours, but then what? All she'd have is some distantly remembered faces, their species and maybe a surname...in a galaxy of a million inhabited worlds and probably quintillions of people.

This is really why she's so determined to stay on Jakku even though she could have probably hitched a lift off world years ago: her only hope of ever seeing them again is if they come back for her.

 

[JD]

That makes sense.

 

[WebLurker]

I know all the new publications are in theory considered canon, but I'm hesitant to take sub-textual cues about a main character's motivation from a tie-in book meant for children as anything close to authoritative.

It all goes through the same office for approval and is designed to be canonical, so I don't really see any reason not to consider it authoritative. (I've listened to a few podcast interviews with authors who've written Star Wars materials for the younger audiences. They've usually gone on record as saying that the write them pretty much the same as the Star Wars stuff the do for adult audiences, barring not using four letter words.)

There's a lot of different things going on in that scene, but I don't think it was either Finn leaving or Maz seeing through her self deception is what made her run. It was the vision. Not necessarily the content but just the fact that it happened at all. It freaked her out.

I'm sure that was a big factor. I did read some of the books, so I do have stuff like this rattling in my head when watching the movie:

"Whatever you've been waiting for -- whomever -- I can see it in your eyes, you've known all along... they're not coming back. But there's someone who still could. With your help."

After all Rey had been through -- after seeing Finn walk away -- her emotions were in turmoil. "No." - TFA junior novelization, Ch. 13, p. 118

The astromech unit chirped a question of his own. He wanted to know where she intended they go. They? Just because the two of them had traveled together in the past, it didn't mean that they would do so in the future. Finn had reminded her of that.

But despite her pleas, the little droid refused to leave her. He would go wherever she went, to Jakku and back again if that's what she wanted.
"No. You have to go back to them," she said. "You're important. Much more than I am. They'll help you fulfill their mission, more than I ever could." - TFA junior novelization, Ch. 14, p. 122

So, I did take it as the vision breaking the camel's back, with a bunch of other stuff just happening before.

There is some related subtext here since right after admitting to herself that she's in denial about her parents, she turns right around and runs headlong into denying her true nature.

I can see that.

Not because she hasn't fully come to grips with her parents abandoning her, but simply because she's afraid of the sabre and the fear and confusion it represents.
No question her defences were down in that moment but that's more a mitigating factor than a causal one.

Maybe.

If you watch how the scene between them plays out, Rey clearly accepts what Maz says about her family and even about Luke. It's only when Maz tells her to take the sabre that Rey recoils.

It looked to me more like she was still just processing everything, but I could be wrong about that. Taking the saber, though, does seem to be the thing that gets her to just want to run somewhere else.

I know, I was just heading off any theories about her being Kylo's sister or Luke's daughter or a brain-wiped padawan, since some people still seem to genuinely buy into those ideas and they generally hinge on her memory being messed with.

No prob.

Personally, I think the idea of her being a Solo kid can be ruled right off the bat, since it doesn't mesh with the movies (if Han and Leia had lost a younger daughter, too, that would've come up). Her being Luke's kid is highly improbable at this point, given what we now know of the pre-TFA timeline (it could be done, but be extremely convoluted). The padawan theory was pretty much only to explain how she picked up on Force tricks so quickly, which ignores that she's not that far ahead of the grade curve, when compared to other untrained Force users.

This is really why she's so determined to stay on Jakku even though she could have probably hitched a lift off world years ago: her only hope of ever seeing them again is if they come back for her.

They actually address this exactly in the movie. Finn outright asks her why she wants to stay on Jakku, when, as a pilot, she could travel pretty much anywhere else. (She doesn't want to talk about it.) The Before the Awakening book also has a story where Rey's refusal to leave despite an escape opportunity is explored a bit.

 

[Reverend]

I don't really want to get into an argument about precisely what's canon and what's not canon, but consider this: most of these tie-in books -- that is books based directly on or relating to the events of the movie -- were most likely written while the movie was still in production and certainly before it was released. That means in all likelihood all the authors would have to go on for this sort of thing would have been the shooting script.

That's great for the major details like names, places and the nuts and bolts of dialog and plot. However it's lousy for interpreting character motivations and internal thought processes. Forget what the book says for a moment and just watch the scene. She's pretty much calmed down until Maz holds out the sabre and then she freaks out all over again.

Another reason why it's not a good idea to get too dogmatic about what's in the books when it comes to interpreting the movies is how some of deleted scenes are still present.
For the most part that doesn't harm but enhance, but there are a few that dramatically alter how one interprets a character's mindset.
To give a specific example: in the novelization the haggling scene between Rey and Unkar Plutt is intact as per the script. But they way they chose to edit that scene alters it's meaning significantly to make Rey seem a lot less mercenary and more loyal to BB-8.

What I'm saying is that it's best not to take "these books are canon" too literally and take their characterisation with a grain of salt because it's filtered through the author's personal interpretation and what suits the narrative they're weaving with the events.
Short version: it's *a* valid interpretation, it is not *the* valid interpretation.

 

[WebLurker]

I don't really want to get into an argument about precisely what's canon and what's not canon..

Okay. I'd kind of like to pursue this line of discussion a little further, so let me know when you've had enough and I'll stop.

...but consider this: most of these tie-in books -- that is books based directly on or relating to the events of the movie -- were most likely written while the movie was still in production and certainly before it was released. That means in all likelihood all the authors would have to go on for this sort of thing would have been the shooting script.

That would be the case for some of them. (I do remember listening to a podcast interview with one of the authors, I think it was Jason Fry, and he did admit that when they're working on stuff at the same time, some inconsistencies will occur.)

That's great for the major details like names, places and the nuts and bolts of dialog and plot. However it's lousy for interpreting character motivations and internal thought processes.

I've actually found that the novelizations tend to play the fastest and loosest with dialogue. For what its worth, with the TFA novelizations I've seen so far, they're reasonably consistent with the characterization. The stuff that isn't is material in stuff that either outright conflicts with the movie (and so is obviously not canon info), either by not being able to have happened or said (for example, the showdown with the gangs and the rathtars has a lot of extra lines; very few of the extra ones actually happened off-screen.

Names and places I'll grant. I've found that these novelizations tend to get characterizations pretty good (although I will concede that the Foster novelization feels the most off). The majority of problematic scenes don't even mesh with the movie in the first place, so there's no need to insert them in the first place.

Forget what the book says for a moment and just watch the scene. She's pretty much calmed down until Maz holds out the sabre and then she freaks out all over again.

I guess I assumed that she was not as calm as she looked. Even before I read the books, I did think she still seemed pretty fragile, stressed out over her Force experience, and not in the best state of mind to be looking at her life objectively.

Another reason why it's not a good idea to get too dogmatic about what's in the books when it comes to interpreting the movies is how some of deleted scenes are still present.
For the most part that doesn't harm but enhance, but there are a few that dramatically alter how one interprets a character's mindset.

If a deleted scene made it into one of the novelizations and doesn't conflict with the movie, it would be considered canon (like the adult novelization's extra scene were Rey is waiting outside the operating room at the Resistance base or the bit with Unkar Plutt on Takodana).

To give a specific example: in the novelization the haggling scene between Rey and Unkar Plutt is intact as per the script. But they way they chose to edit that scene alters it's meaning significantly to make Rey seem a lot less mercenary and more loyal to BB-8.

Even the exacts of it are different from version to version:

- The adult novelization has Rey negating when Plutt makes the mistake of annoying her one times too many.

- The junior novelization and Rey's Survival Guide run with the idea that she realized she was making a moral compromise that she wouldn't be able to live with.

- The Rey's Story novelization puts it on her having compassion for BB-8. (Incidentally, this version fills in the gap of the movie between Rey and BB-8 arriving in town and her going to Plutt's stand, showing BB-8 starting to worm his way into Rey's heart.)

However, since the scene isn't canonical in the first place (since we saw the scene in "real time" and there's no gap for this to happen), I don't think it's anything more than an interesting "behind the scenes" look at how the movie couldn't been (and shows that, in the movie, Rey was turning down an offer she couldn't afford to refuse in more ways than one).

What I'm saying is that it's best not to take "these books are canon" too literally and take their characterisation with a grain of salt because it's filtered through the author's personal interpretation and what suits the narrative they're weaving with the events.
Short version: it's *a* valid interpretation, it is not *the* valid interpretation.

Officially, everything has equal weight, which is a little overly simplistic. Understandably, I'm sure pretty much everyone assumes that the movies have seniority, with the TV shows next, and then everything else.

Novelizations are a little loosey-goosey in their place in canon, given that the extra information is canonical, even if the way it's presented is not (except when the information is just plain wrong). For example, the novelization's version of Snoke's first scene has extra dialogue not in the movie (nor could it be put back into the movie as having happened off screen) that gives him more backstory. So, while Snoke and Kylo Ren discussing Snoke's background at that moment is non-canon, the basic information there is. (Confused yet?)

Personally, I tend to put novelizations at the bottom of the canon list, since they, by nature, have some discrepancies which need to be ignored, and have historically been treated as optional by other tie-ins. However, until its overwritten, new information in novelizations that meshes is canon, so I guess I don't think it needs quite as much salt as you think.

(This's all IMHO.)

 

[Reverend]

All I've really got to say at this point is that it's probably best not to get too bogged down into the minutia when it comes to what is and is not canon.

Part of what killed my interest in the EU was the dogged determination of a certain portion of the fanbase to dissect and parse *everything* into a needlessly complicated rock-paper-scissors tiered system that was never even remotely coherent. It was less an appreciation of art and more an exercise in fussy bureaucracy.

From what I've seen I think a lot of people misconstruing the meaning of "canon". It's not meant to be a value judgement, as in "this thing is not canon therefore it is worthless" therefore they get very funny at the suggestion that a thing they like may not be 100% iron clad "canon".
It's a common attitude it seems (and by no means limited to Star Wars fandom) but I feel it's a misguided one. All "canon" really means is "this is a thing that happened." That's simple enough when it comes to the broad strokes of plot and narrative, but it's unwise and honestly fairly pointless to try and lock down *every* last detail and nuance. This is art after all and there should always be some room for subjective interpretation.

Imagine going through a book with a set of highlighters and colour coding every sentence and word according to how "canon" it is in relation to other sources according to a rigid system. That's the logical end result of that mindset and to me, that way lies madness.


Getting back to the scene in question, I think we're better off watching the actor's performances, listening to the music queues, the shot composition and see and discuss what that scene means to us rather referring to what is essentially the cliffnotes to form our thoughts and opinions.

 

[JD]

I just tend to assume everything is canon unless it's contradicted by something else. Canon is way down on my list of things I'm concerned with though. All I care about is whether I enjoy the book/movie/game.

 

[WebLurker]

All I've really got to say at this point is that it's probably best not to get too bogged down into the minutia when it comes to what is and is not canon.

Sure.

Part of what killed my interest in the EU was the dogged determination of a certain portion of the fanbase to dissect and parse *everything* into a needlessly complicated rock-paper-scissors tiered system that was never even remotely coherent. It was less an appreciation of art and more an exercise in fussy bureaucracy.

I thought the system itself was okay, but that they twisted themselves into pretzels to include everything, rather than occasionally just deciding to use only one version.

From what I've seen I think a lot of people misconstruing the meaning of "canon". It's not meant to be a value judgement, as in "this thing is not canon therefore it is worthless" therefore they get very funny at the suggestion that a thing they like may not be 100% iron clad "canon".

That's not what I meant within this discussion.

It's a common attitude it seems (and by no means limited to Star Wars fandom) but I feel it's a misguided one. All "canon" really means is "this is a thing that happened." That's simple enough when it comes to the broad strokes of plot and narrative, but it's unwise and honestly fairly pointless to try and lock down *every* last detail and nuance. This is art after all and there should always be some room for subjective interpretation.

Well, I can see the point you're making, although I find it interesting to know what can fit and what should be left to interpretation.

Imagine going through a book with a set of highlighters and colour coding every sentence and word according to how "canon" it is in relation to other sources according to a rigid system.

That would be interesting to see.

That's the logical end result of that mindset and to me, that way lies madness.

Yeah.

Getting back to the scene in question, I think we're better off watching the actor's performances, listening to the music queues, the shot composition and see and discuss what that scene means to us rather referring to what is essentially the cliffnotes to form our thoughts and opinions.

Okay. I guess I didn't see the printed page as not meshing the on-screen stuff, but complimenting it, but whatever.

I just tend to assume everything is canon unless it's contradicted by something else. Canon is way down on my list of things I'm concerned with though. All I care about is whether I enjoy the book/movie/game.

I think I agree with this mindset.

 

[Reverend]

I thought the system itself was okay, but that they twisted themselves into pretzels to include everything, rather than occasionally just deciding to use only one version.

I think what baffled me most was that the notion of a tiered canon system is in and of itself a contradiction in terms. Canon is a binary state. It either happened, or it didn't. Honestly I think this bizarre hierarchy of unreality is probably the main reason why so many vocal fans became so obsessed. Also why the very same group flipped out when Disney cleared the decks.

I just tend to assume everything is canon unless it's contradicted by something else. Canon is way down on my list of things I'm concerned with though. All I care about is whether I enjoy the book/movie/game.

Oh absolutely. One of the most enjoyable Star Wars related things I've seen recently was the Lego Freemaker Adventures which is most assuredly not canon and all the better for it IMO.

I don't mean to imply I'm singling any individuals out here, but it is a tendency I've noticed increasingly over the last 15 years or so. More and more fans seem to apply a value judgement based purely on whether it's canonical. Which to me is very short sighted and inherently limiting.

That the old 'Droids' cartoon isn't canon (and never really was) doesn't diminish my childhood memories or affection for it one bit. Same for 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye', the Rogue Squadron books or Kyle Katarn video games (though a tiny part of me is holding out hope some version of KotOR will makes it into canon some day )

 

[Set Harth]

Those things really were canon under the old system, though, despite the fact that some people claim otherwise.

Understandably, I'm sure pretty much everyone assumes that the movies have seniority, with the TV shows next, and then everything else.

So in other words... meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

 

[The Wormhole]

So in other words... meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

With a fancier title.

 

[WebLurker]

I think what baffled me most was that the notion of a tiered canon system is in and of itself a contradiction in terms. Canon is a binary state. It either happened, or it didn't. Honestly I think this bizarre hierarchy of unreality is probably the main reason why so many vocal fans became so obsessed.

I could be wrong, but, as I understood it, the tiered system was more for resolving continuity errors and retcons; generally when there was an inconsistency, the higher-tiered material was considered to be the correct version.

Now granted, the Clone Wars show largely did its own thing and did contradict a lot of older tie-in novels, which is where it does get really convoluted. The TV show always had seniority, so it's material became the "real" version. From there the lower level tie-ins would either try to create some kind of retcon to reconcile the two versions (usually published in a reference book or simply stated on social media by a LucasFilm employee) or just chose to disregard the inaccurate version as just that and move on.

So, by the end of Legends' life, there were a fair number of books and comics that were basically said to be overall canon, but specific parts and elements of those stories were not (e.g.: The story happened but marker out the pages where character X died and assume that the story happened without them).

I personally didn't mind the system in and of itself, but I do think they stretched too hard in some cases to be as inclusive as possible and that, overall, the tie-ins being canonical was more lip service than anything else (given that the movies and TV shows always did their own thing regardless of what apple carts it would upset). I mean, I think the reboot has been an overall good thing. It's not only allowed new stories and some really good stuff, it's also cleaned up a lot of the more problematic stuff and streamlined everything.

Also why the very same group flipped out when Disney cleared the decks.

I've heard a lot of extreme and moderate opinions from these fans. You got those who view the Disney materials as awful fanfiction and hold that the "Legends" version as the only true Star Wars material. Some of these have even insinuated that Disney/LucasFilm is morally wrong for putting the reboot into place.

On the other hand, you got people who simply enjoyed the stories, timelines and characters that only exist in the Legends materials and want more new stories for that version to run concurrently with the Disney materials.

It's kind of interesting seeing how, unlike other unpopular creative decisions with other franchises, this one actually has certain people campaigning for a continuation of Legends, although I do feel that it's gotten out of hand (with the bad apples causing trouble) and has always been an exercise in futility.

Oh absolutely. One of the most enjoyable Star Wars related things I've seen recently was the Lego Freemaker Adventures which is most assuredly not canon and all the better for it IMO.

Yeah, that's a good show. Kind of lost track of it after the Takodana episode, but yeah, really funny and some very good lead characters. Hope they do a DVD of the complete series soon.

I don't mean to imply I'm singling any individuals out here, but it is a tendency I've noticed increasingly over the last 15 years or so. More and more fans seem to apply a value judgement based purely on whether it's canonical. Which to me is very short sighted and inherently limiting.

Sure I can see that. Personally, I think that canon has nothing to do with good stories and that there should be some of each, but I do like knowing which stories fit into which categories.

That the old 'Droids' cartoon isn't canon (and never really was) doesn't diminish my childhood memories or affection for it one bit.

Huh, I understood that Droids was considered part of canon when Legends was around.

Same for 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye', the Rogue Squadron books or Kyle Katarn video games (though a tiny part of me is holding out hope some version of KotOR will makes it into canon some day )

I'm not sure I liked Splinter of the Mind's Eye that much, although it is interesting for its place in history and it is funny, esp. with hindsight of what future movies would establish.

Those things really were canon under the old system, though, despite the fact that some people claim otherwise.

Yeah, that's true, however, in practice, I don't really feel that the Powers That Be treated it like it was.

So in other words... meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

In effect, yeah. Now, officially, there's no tier system now, but I'd be extremely surprised if the movies aren't first among equals and if some version of a tier comes back, esp. when the franchise gets larger and discrepancies become more common.