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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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oswriter said:
Actually, it flies quite nicely. The impeachment was a substitute for the criminal charge Clinton would have normally faced had he not been the President. That he was not convicted in the Senate is of no relevance. My point is that he faced the equivalent of a criminal charge for lying in a civil deposition.

But hey, if you feel some compulsive need to rush to the defense of a serial rapist and mass murderer, don't let me stand in your way.
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We were talking about Alec Peters.

There are forums for political discussions on the board. This example doesn't have anything to do with Axanar.

If you're going to question my motivations for pointing out how it has no bearing, and one reason why it is a poor example for indicating criminal liability, I could just as easily wonder why you had to drag in something so irrelevant in the first place.
 
muCephi said:
You know, Mr. Bawden at one point said that what excited him about the studio was its potential for use in an area he is interested in, those fake story videos folded into news sites but actually advertisements.

Wonder if Promise is making a comeback.
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That is where my money is still sitting... as of this posting anyway. Those native advertisements are economically made, very short shoot time, and revenue producers. Now fan films are fun, there are the little indie productions that could use that little sound stage, even webisodes made for entertainment 'business'. But I'm not seeing, at least so far, how the returns on them can in general approach the cost/return factor that using a small studio for those kinds of filming would be great enough to interest investors whose focus was on making money. Not like I can see cranking out native advertisements would. Anyway, my money is still on Bawden and the those-who-wish-to-remain-anonymous investors.... being business 'minded' and intent on maneuvering the studio into something more like the native ad business. I believe I'm understanding it right that the native ad business is in a mostly upward trajectory right now. There is a lot of study being done on this; the effectiveness of it, some forecasting that will play itself out. But though its longevity still remains to be seen big money businesses are currently using a lot of it so there seems to be a large profitable market for it right now. And if it plays itself out, for whatever native advertisement eventually evolves into.
 
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CorporalCaptain said:
We were talking about Alec Peters.

There are forums for political discussions on the board. This example doesn't have anything to do with Axanar.

If you're going to question my motivations for pointing out how it has no bearing, and one reason why it is a poor example for indicating criminal liability, I could just as easily wonder why you had to drag in something so irrelevant in the first place.
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Mentioning something that is a historical fact is hardly pushing a discussion into politics. And something that happened almost 20 years ago.

It's an example of perjury.
 
Professor Zoom said:
Mentioning something that is a historical fact is hardly pushing a discussion into politics.
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Of course it isn't. That and there being some connection with respect to the question of perjury were why I was willing to respond initially.

However:

But hey, if you feel some compulsive need to rush to the defense of a serial rapist and mass murderer, don't let me stand in your way.
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That is most certainly pushing the discussion both into politics and into areas that have fuck-all to do with the question of perjury, much less Axanar. I'm not going to be drawn into a discussion about those issues here.
 
ThankYouGeneR said:
That is where my money is still sitting... as of this posting anyway. Those native advertisements are economically made, very short shoot time, and revenue producers. Now fan films are fun, there are the little indie productions that could use that little sound stage, even webisodes made for entertainment 'business'. But I'm not seeing, at least so far, how the returns on them can in general approach the cost/return factor that using a small studio for those kinds of filming would be great enough to interest investors whose focus was on making money. Not like I can see cranking out native advertisements would. Anyway, my money is still on Bawden and the those-who-wish-to-remain-anonymous investors.... being business 'minded' and intent on maneuvering the studio into something more like the native ad business. I believe I'm understanding it right that the native ad business is in a mostly upward trajectory right now. There is a lot of study being done on this; the effectiveness of it, some forecasting that will play itself out. But though its longevity still remains to be seen big money businesses are currently using a lot of it so there seems to be a large profitable market for it right now. And if it plays itself out, for whatever native advertisement eventually evolves into.
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Quite a clever little scam then. All they need to do is chuck out the odd Star Trek themed film once in a while to keep the baying mob happy (and funding them) and they can profit mightily from the advertisement productions. Monday to Friday they work and then at the weekends they can go off and attend Star Trek cons on donor expenses.

When you see it like that you can understand why they're fighting so hard to keep things afloat, even if it means throwing whatever scraps (unfinished tunics) they can muster to the crowd to keep them from abandoning them. It also explains why some of the ex-Axanar people are now so unhappy. They haven't seen the light and decided on a course of truth and justice, they're just pissed because they've missed out on the big money. Thieving scum.
 
OtherGene said:
When you see it like that you can understand why they're fighting so hard to keep things afloat, even if it means throwing whatever scraps (unfinished tunics) they can muster to the crowd to keep them from abandoning them.
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Though this is still conjecture on my part and am speculating on incomplete evidence, lots of pieces of the information available seem to support, at least to me.. and at this time, the likelihood of this being a hefty part of the client's side of the W&S/client motivation for fighting so hard. Yeah.
It also explains why some of the ex-Axanar people are now so unhappy. They haven't seen the light and decided on a course of truth and justice, they're just pissed because they've missed out on the big money. Thieving scum.
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:lol: I 'think' you are being facetious when you are saying that, right? 'Cause outside of Mr. McIntosh whose motivations are mostly unreadable to me anymore, Mr. Gossett tells the story of a leader with minuscule experience & insight into film making who, once massive over-funding was occurring, drove sound council away and rewrote the plans for everything. Then most (if not all?) of the people Mr. Gossett had brought in didn't like what they were experiencing under the new, um, format and left too. And the history re-writes began. What's true one day is something different the next, and so on. People treated poorly, people being forced out, donors treated poorly, solicitations made for producing unlicensed materials like books and a coffee brand. Lack of accountability. Delays. Acting out. Blaming. That list just goes on. With other walk-aways giving similar descriptions of what has been going on inside the production. Even Mr. Bawden has told us he tries to council the defendant but has little success. So I'm thinking that you were making a joke about that last part. :bolian:
 
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CorporalCaptain said:
Of course it isn't. That and there being some connection with respect to the question of perjury were why I was willing to respond initially.

However:



That is most certainly pushing the discussion both into politics and into areas that have fuck-all to do with the question of perjury, much less Axanar. I'm not going to be drawn into a discussion about those issues here.
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Yeah. Point taken. Never mind.
 
ThankYouGeneR said:
Though this is still conjecture on my part and am speculating on incomplete evidence, lots of pieces of the information available seem to support, at least to me.. and at this time, the likelihood of this being a hefty part of the client's side of the W&S/client motivation for fighting so hard. Yeah.

:lol: I 'think' you are being facetious when you are saying that, right? 'Cause outside of Mr. McIntosh whose motivations are mostly unreadable to me anymore, Mr. Gossett tells the story of a leader with minuscule experience and insight into film making who, once massive over-funding was occurring, drove sound council away and rewrote the plans for everything. Then most (if not all?) of the people Mr. Gossett had brought in didn't like what they were experiencing under the new, um, format and left too. And the history re-writes began. What's true one day is something different the next, and so on. People treated poorly, people being forced out, donors treated poorly, solicitations made for producing unlicensed materials like books and a coffee brand. Lack of accountability. Delays. Acting out. Blaming. That list just goes on. With other walk-aways giving similar descriptions of what has been going on inside the production. Even Mr. Bawden has told us he tries to council the defendant but has little success. So I'm thinking that you were making a joke about that last part. :bolian:
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I did say some of the people and not all ;). It would be ridiculous to include the likes of Gossett in that but as to the others....

Incidentally, I haven't looked at Mr Mcintosh's recent handiwork regarding his version of Ares Digital for a few reasons. For a start I'm not twelve but also why would I look at something the likes of him would produce?:barf:
 
Realistically, Axanar should be considered dead. Even is TPTB allowed it to be made, there is no way the movie could ever live up to expectations at this point.
 
ironnerd said:
Realistically, Axanar should be considered dead. Even is TPTB allowed it to be made, there is no way the movie could ever live up to expectations at this point.
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And that's why it will never be made. Of course the lawsuit is a part of it, but to make it now would be to have to live up to so many expectations. It's like promising mermaids but having to deliver manatees.
 
jespah said:
And that's why it will never be made. Of course the lawsuit is a part of it, but to make it now would be to have to live up to so many expectations. It's like promising mermaids but having to deliver manatees.
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Alec Peters: "Sorry guys, we already had the mermaids in [insert current name] studios, but our Sushi place was closed and since we needed our fish fix we had to improvise."
 
jespah said:
And that's why it will never be made. Of course the lawsuit is a part of it, but to make it now would be to have to live up to so many expectations. It's like promising mermaids but having to deliver manatees.
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It won't be made because they aren't going to win the litigation. You and I both know that. The odds of them getting away with this are so low that CBS/Paramount simply have no reason to settle on such terms (and Peters should be getting advice to the effect that an offer to cease the project and walk away without financial penalty would be a good deal). So the possibility of the project going ahead only comes up in the unlikely event of a win for Peters.
 
jespah said:
And that's why it will never be made. Of course the lawsuit is a part of it, but to make it now would be to have to live up to so many expectations. It's like promising mermaids but having to deliver manatees.
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I think that at least part of the reason why they were dragging their feet on making the film was because they were afraid of exactly that problem. It's one thing to talk about making the Best Independent Fan Film Ever (TM), but it's another to actually do it. What if you promise deep characters...and deliver a Mary Sue perfect hero? What if you promise a film with the structure and meaning of WoK...and deliver an endless stream of pew-pew? What if you promise poetic lines that illuminate the heart of character and story...and deliver "waves upon the firmament"?

What if that happens?

You're going to be laughed out of the room. With the exception of a few people who will support you no matter what, people are going to say, "You had $1.3 million and did this?" Instead of being a "calling card for [their] work in the industry," it will be a neon sign demonstrating why novices shouldn't be trusted with a property without a long apprenticeship and why talent does matter.

I don't think the ego on display could have handled the feedback if Axanar had been made. Best case scenario for that team is that the lawsuit ends Axanar (allowing it to be the best Star Trek film never made) and they keep the studio for a new project.
 
Indysolo said:
And I know just the person to write it!

8799023.jpg


Neil
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The Incredible Bulk strikes again!

Per
 
Earthrise said:
I think that at least part of the reason why they were dragging their feet on making the film was because they were afraid of exactly that problem.
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Since starting to examine all this at the time the lawsuit was announced I've been of the mind that this is one of the hidden variables that do partially account for, well, so many of the delays. The 'we don't have it perfect yet' factor can be just that... and also can be a measure of 'if we don't get it the best ever like we've said' fear. With any fandom nobody gets outta jail free with the myriad microscopic lenses trained on you & your film. And Internet keyboard crucification (<-made up word) when the hype doesn't meet each individual fan's expectations in the reality?
It's one thing to talk about making the Best Independent Fan Film Ever (TM), but it's another to actually do it. What if you promise deep characters...and deliver a Mary Sue perfect hero? What if you promise a film with the structure and meaning of WoK...and deliver an endless stream of pew-pew? What if you promise poetic lines that illuminate the heart of character and story...and deliver "waves upon the firmament"?
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:lol: Waves upon the firmament. :lol: Exactly
I don't think the ego on display could have handled the feedback if Axanar had been made.
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Agree. I mean, seriously, We are fandom.(pick any fandom) We are are legion. Some of us do not forgive. Some of us do not forget. Expect us. --Apologies to Anonymous for borrowing your line.

This would be a heavy burden for most anyone. And whatever I may think about the hows, whys, whos of this case I do recognize that whatever else evolved in the defendant's agenda in a future whatever.... this production, for years now, is his dearest thing, his heart and soul, and I recognize he has given it everything; time, energy, vision. I will not ever find fault with him for this. (Now his choices in all that working to accomplish it on the other hand..... but that's already covered in other posts.)

But already the years of dissent, questions, downright complaints wanting answers about this production have not demonstrated a personality easy with this. Then to get it in the can and released? It surely, maybe even secretly in the corners of one's mind... could very well, even subconsciously, create rationalizations for delays; this isn't perfect yet. that actor isn't the one we need. we need a bigger this, a better that, this other thing isn't getting done, we need more of.... all in the search for the promised perfection that cannot be met that carries the price of scrutiny and backlash which isn't well tolerated. Delay.

It's human. It happens all the time on a smaller scale to most humans now and then. But this time it concerns a deeply personal momentous hoped for turning point into opening wide the world of the future.................................. And not only is it public... it's Internet public... for years now... and hype has been building for years now.... and So Has Backlash!

Sitting with the 'wanting' rather than the 'having' delays its attending butcher's bill.

delay/rationalization.... rationalization/delay.... blaming/delay..... repeat as emotionally needed.

What if that happens?
................it will be a neon sign demonstrating why novices shouldn't be trusted with a property without a long apprenticeship and why talent does matter.
...............
Best case scenario for that team is that the lawsuit ends Axanar (allowing it to be the best Star Trek film never made) and they keep the studio for a new project.
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Agree. Victimization and martyrdom are indeed a type of major win without ever needing to face what would surely have had to be faced had it been completed. Even a well done completion.
ironnerd said:
Realistically, Axanar should be considered dead. Even is TPTB allowed it to be made, there is no way the movie could ever live up to expectations at this point.
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Yes, I agree, the realization of the film can never live up to the years of hype 'for' the film. For the few, of course. But examining a completed (name any fandom) fandom production with microscopes and keyboards? Not even our own The Wrath Of Khan or The City On The Edge Of Forever completely escaped this hell.
 
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Chalk it up to Alec Antics.
The finale was written and filmed well before the guidelines. Studio 2 was dismantled and construction of studio 3 began and well before the guidelines.
Project Potemkin may have ended but Deimos, Kupok, Tristan and Endeavour are all in full production.
 
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