Why didn't Beyond do better at the Box Office?

[M'Sharak]

I know you're trying real hard to put a positive spin on Beyond's underwhelming box office, but this is a 100% plain lie and you know it.

If you believe an assertion to be incorrect, then show where it is wrong - without the accusation that the person making the assertion must be lying. Post, not poster.

Not to single you out, however. I've been seeing unnecessarily personal responses from quite a few people in this thread, and it really needs to be reined in.

I get that there's some ego involved in having the right analysis of whatever the current box office figures are, but no one should get so invested in being right that they're attacking someone for presenting a different answer to what the figures are supposed to mean. Again, if you're going to find fault with the analysis or with the conclusion, be sure that that is what you're attacking, and not the person who presented it.

Not only is it possible to make a case for your conclusion without being shitty to the person whose conclusion may be different from yours, I fully expect everyone to rein in their BOX OFFICE MASTER!™ egos enough to make it happen.

 

[eyeresist]

Ph, the Borg can and will work wonderfully updated for future Trek products. Just not in those Kelvin-timeline movies. They are stylistically too far apart. And adapting them to a Fast-and-Furious style action villain will make them as bland a villain as Krall and his soldiers in the marketing campaign.

I think they could do the Borg, but they would have to refresh the concept. Rather than them just being slow zombies in space, I would have them as just one aspect of a technological plague:

Imagine our heroes looking down a starship corridor, and seeing the far end of the corridor materially change, becoming dark and full of animated tendrils and little glowing lights like eyes. This metamorphosis encroaches and comes nearer, until they can glimpse humanoid figures lurking in the shadows, perhaps emerging from the very walls and floor, and moving in an inhuman, insectoid way.
I would avoid having them talk. If they are truly one with their technology, the voice could come from anywhere their technology has touched.

 

[Kelthaz]

The Borg can work in a Kelvin film, but I doubt that general audiences are going to go for a zombies in space movie. The Borg need to wait until audiences are already invested in the franchise and care about the characters. Having Thanos invade the Earth in Iron Man 1 wouldn't have worked.

 

[eyeresist]

The Borg can work in a Kelvin film, but I doubt that general audiences are going to go for a zombies in space movie. The Borg need to wait until audiences are already invested in the franchise and care about the characters.

Zombies are quite popular. And the Alien movies were popular (and good) without needing prequels to build up the characters.

 

[Amaris]

I would watch it if it had the Borg in it, but I would go in not really enthusiastic about it. I'm all Borged out.

 

[locutus101]

I would watch it if it had the Borg in it, but I would go in not really enthusiastic about it. I'm all Borged out.

Unless they added a new twist to the usual borg stories, I'd certainly feel the same way as you.

 

[Amaris]

Unless they added a new twist to the usual borg stories, I'd certainly feel the same way as you.

Yeah, for me it would have to be a heck of a twist, though. I'm not sure what they could really do, honestly. After VOY, the Borg just no longer had any appeal for me. I don't even watch FC any more.

 

[locutus101]

Yeah, for me it would have to be a heck of a twist, though. I'm not sure what they could really do, honestly. After VOY, the Borg just no longer had any appeal for me. I don't even watch FC any more.

I don't know. Maybe something to the effect of the borg creating false human beings that would just be drones undercover, drone moles, so to speak. That could be interesting.

 

[Amaris]

I don't know. Maybe something to the effect of the borg creating false human beings that would just be drones undercover, drone moles, so to speak. That could be interesting.

Eh, they'd have to really make that work for me. Like I said, I'm just too Borged out. Big twists need a satisfying payoff, and little would encourage me involving the Borg. Not to say they couldn't do it, just that my enjoyment of the Borg concept is burnt out.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I see Beyond has just outperformed X-Men: Apocalypse in the US (but sadly nowhere near worldwide)

Does anyone know what's next for the X-Men film franchise? I see that, much like Trek they have a TV series (Leigon, about the son of Charles Xavier) launching next year but haven't seen anything about the future of the films, aside from the key actors being signed for a sequel. Perhaps whatever happens there will be an indicator for Trek's future.

 

[Rahul]

I pointed out I don't know the exact amount invested, but the budget of Beyond with it for Paramount alone is likely in the $140-160 million range. The only thing we really DO know is that the budget didn't cost Paramount $185 million.

If it's $160 million: Gross: $340-350 million(I gave a breakdown of the possible country grosses yesterday)
ST09: $140 million Gross: $385 million

See how that works? They're relatively close. Inflation isn't a great gauge with box office figures. I tend to ignore the adjusted grosses because they are full of inaccuracies and suppositions.

RAMA

This is laughably wrong. If anything the Budget for Beyond was a lot higher(!) than the stated 185 Mio. And the marketing isn't eben included! They look at costs WAY above 200+ mio.

Why do you think they would lie and the budget was somehow lower(?!?) than what they claimed? If you make SUCH audacious staments, you should at least give a source...

 

[locutus101]

I see Beyond has just outperformed X-Men: Apocalypse in the US (but sadly nowhere near worldwide)

Does anyone know what's next for the X-Men film franchise? I see that, much like Trek they have a TV series (Leigon, about the son of Charles Xavier) launching next year but haven't seen anything about the future of the films, aside from the key actors being signed for a sequel. Perhaps whatever happens there will be an indicator for Trek's future.

In other countries people don't wait as eagerly for the next product of the ST franchise as they do in the US.

 

[urbandefault]

Yeah, for me it would have to be a heck of a twist, though. I'm not sure what they could really do, honestly. After VOY, the Borg just no longer had any appeal for me. I don't even watch FC any more.

How about Borg who change into ships and weapons and vehicles, and have Michael Bay direct?

 

[RAMA]

It's funny to me how people say the Borg are "zombies" when they are actually hyper-intelligent/connected, and far from dead, their bodies are extremely active, amplified in strength, senses, and awareness and coursing with nanotechnology.

RAMA

 

[eyeresist]

Sentient ships are not something I want to see in Trek. There's something ... cheesy about them, in execution if not in concept.

 

[BillJ]

Studios don't count advertising as part of the cost of a movie. It's a separate budget. However there are other costs associated with movie releases and of course, a lot of other avenues of revenue, both of which are pointed out in my Beyond box office post roundup from a couple of weeks ago.

Even though it is technically separate, Paramount knows exactly how much was spent on advertising for the film. I'm sure internally, that is part of the equation that will be factored into the discussions to move forward.

Yes, there are other avenues of revenue, we've probably spent thirty pages talking about it. But, Beyond underperformed, pretty much everywhere theatrically. Won't stop me from getting the Blu-ray when it comes out though.

 

[locutus101]

Sentient ships are not something I want to see in Trek. There's something ... cheesy about them, in execution if not in concept.

I don't know, Kubrick's 2001 A Space Odyssey was basically about a sentient ship gone bonkers and yet it was a masterpiece.

 

[RAMA]

It under-performed in down periods in box office in the US and China independently of each other (in other words the market forces are different, but with the same result). Similarly other countries' box office were also down as Europe's economic future is currently uncertain.

Ticket sales in the US in 2014 were the lowest since 1995 and in 2015 they were only saved by Star Wars, or they would have been even lower than 2014. This year it'll be lower still as they are running 400 million less than last year.

Another factor is the movie ticket prices in both China and the US are way up. The avg in the US is $2.00 more than in 2006.

Out of 495 films released this year, Beyond is 10th. The fact that it'll make almost $350 million is pretty impressive. If I told anyone in 2008 that a Star Trek film would gross $350 million then they would have thought I was crazy.

Superhero movies still are the most popular genre around. There are people waiting for them as their "fantasy" fix over science fiction films. Animated films also seem to be the only movies parents can take their kids to without worrying about content, so they still do well in down periods.

So again. Beyond will make money. Paramount would have liked more, but it's better than losing money. More Trek films on the way. Trekkies happy(ok wait, Trekkies are never happy)..

RAMA

Even though it is technically separate, Paramount knows exactly how much was spent on advertising for the film. I'm sure internally, that is part of the equation that will be factored into the discussions to move forward.

Yes, there are other avenues of revenue, we've probably spent thirty pages talking about it. But, Beyond underperformed, pretty much everywhere theatrically. Won't stop me from getting the Blu-ray when it comes out though.

 

[locutus101]

That sounds like a success to me.

 

[RAMA]

Eh, they'd have to really make that work for me. Like I said, I'm just too Borged out. Big twists need a satisfying payoff, and little would encourage me involving the Borg. Not to say they couldn't do it, just that my enjoyment of the Borg concept is burnt out.

There is almost no possibility the Borg will be in ST4. But...

Borged out? The Borg haven't appeared on any screen in 13 years. Before that they hadn't appeared in 2 years since Voyager. So one appearance in 15 years....

RAMA