Excessive Criticism of "STAR TREK VOYAGER"

[Tracy Trek]

I would certainly like to think so, but I think that it needed a simple, throwaway line of acknowledgement, rather than hoping the audience ignores it.

Sometimes I believe they do think the audience will ignore it.

I CAN remember one time they did throw in a little line in a nod to continuity. I guess it was in Macrocosm, when Janeway and Neelix have came back onto the ship and can't find anyone. Neelix has been stung/bitten already. Janeway scans him and says "Your lungs are filling up with fluid". He reminds her, "LUNG, captain". Now see there writers, that wasn't so hard, was it?

 

[locutus101]

Sometimes I believe they do think the audience will ignore it.

I CAN remember one time they did throw in a little line in a nod to continuity. I guess it was in Macrocosm, when Janeway and Neelix have came back onto the ship and can't find anyone. Neelix has been stung/bitten already. Janeway scans him and says "Your lungs are filling up with fluid". He reminds her, "LUNG, captain". Now see there writers, that wasn't so hard, was it?

Yeah, Janeway and her crooked sense of "ethics". She had no problem killing the innocent Tuvix but somehow had scruples taking back the lungs from the Viddian thief who took them from Neelix. She just hate innocent people.

 

[Sophie74656]

That is so funny.

I did like that scene at the beginning, too. They never showed what B'Elanna's nightmare was. My opinion of what they could have used would be something about her abandonment by her father or something about the Vidians.

If the nightmares were what everyone was the most afraid of then it would make sense that hers would involve abandonment

 

[Tracy Trek]

Yeah, Janeway and her crooked sense of "ethics". She had no problem killing the innocent Tuvix but somehow had scruples taking back the lungs from the Viddian thief who took them from Neelix. She just hate innocent people.

I don't recall her taking the lungs back from them. Kes donated one of hers. The Vidians gave the doctor the medical information to genetically modify the donated lung to work for Neelix (in exchange for Janeway letting them go). It was how they modifed the organs they stole from other species.

If the nightmares were what everyone was the most afraid of then it would make sense that hers would involve abandonment

Does that mean that Harry's most afraid of being seduced by Seven? After he got over his surprise, he didn't look all that unhappy about it.

 

[stardream]

I think B'Elanna's bi-species standing might be a bit problematic. What might be a nightmare to a human would be a walk in the park to a Klingon whereas to a Klingon dreaming of walking that same park surrounded by fluffy little creatures might be a nightmare.

 

[locutus101]

I don't recall her taking the lungs back from them. Kes donated one of hers. The Vidians gave the doctor the medical information to genetically modify the donated lung to work for Neelix (in exchange for Janeway letting them go). It was how they modifed the organs they stole from other species....

That's just what I said. I said she had scruples taking the lungs back.

 

[Tracy Trek]

That's just what I said. I said she had scruples taking the lungs back.

Oh, OK. I misunderstood what you said.

 

[locutus101]

I think B'Elanna's bi-species standing might be a bit problematic. What might be a nightmare to a human would be a walk in the park to a Klingon whereas to a Klingon dreaming of walking that same park surrounded by fluffy little creatures might be a nightmare.

She's half-klingon half-human, that means she's afraid of mice and tribbles OR it means she's afraid of neither. We can't know which.

 

[locutus101]

Oh, OK. I misunderstood what you said.

Happens to the best of us.

 

[WebLurker]

Yeah, Janeway and her crooked sense of "ethics". She had no problem killing the innocent Tuvix but somehow had scruples taking back the lungs from the Viddian thief who took them from Neelix. She just hate innocent people.

For what it's worth, I think that "Tuvix" was posting the ethical problem that Tuvix's continued existence was condemning two innocent people to die. So, in reality, there was no "right" decision, whereas the Vidiian situation, I'm not so sure. As far as "Tuvix" went, I have to admit that I can't really say that Janeway made the wrong decision, even though it be hard to label it as a "right" one.

 

[Sophie74656]

For what it's worth, I think that "Tuvix" was posting the ethical problem that Tuvix's continued existence was condemning two innocent people to die. So, in reality, there was no "right" decision, whereas the Vidiian situation, I'm not so sure. As far as "Tuvix" went, I have to admit that I can't really say that Janeway made the wrong decision, even though it be hard to label it as a "right" one.

That's something I love about Tuvix. It was such a hard place to be. As you said, there was no right answer. Either way people were dying. You could argue both sides equally, one way Tuvix dies, the other way Tuvok and Neelix die. I truly love when Trek has these moral issues that spark conversation

 

[MacLeod]

That's something I love about Tuvix. It was such a hard place to be. As you said, there was no right answer. Either way people were dying. You could argue both sides equally, one way Tuvix dies, the other way Tuvok and Neelix die. I truly love when Trek has these moral issues that spark conversation

This isn't the thread to debate "Tuvix" as it could take ver the thread, but we've debated "Tuvix" endlessly and I doubt either side is going to change their opinion of Janeway's actions.

 

[Sophie74656]

This isn't the thread to debate "Tuvix" as it could take ver the thread, but we've debated "Tuvix" endlessly and I doubt either side is going to change their opinion of Janeway's actions.

I'm not trying to debate it, just saying that I think the subject is well presented in the episode. I honestly don't know if I could debate it well since I don't stand strongly on one side or the other

 

[locutus101]

Voyager was never excessively criticized. If anything it was overindulged by people who were desperate to find in it things that were never there.

 

[Sophie74656]

Voyager was never excessively criticized. If anything it was overindulged by people who were desperate to find in it things that were never there.

I've been active on several forums over the years and it definately hasbeen criticised a lot. I have nothing against people disliking the show, but it is true that Voyager gets heavily criticised for doing things that TNG and DS9 did and were praised for.

 

[locutus101]

I've been active on several forums over the years and it definately hasbeen criticised a lot. I have nothing against people disliking the show, but it is true that Voyager gets heavily criticised for doing things that TNG and DS9 did and were praised for.

Only very superficially. The way a butcher could be compared to a brain surgeon.

 

[MacLeod]

Just because shows A and B have done something similar to show C doesn't mean show C will work, as the audiance could take the view seen that before want something different.

So the tropes come into play

It's the same now it sucks

It's changed now it sucks.

 

[locutus101]

Just because shows A and B have done something similar to show C doesn't mean show C will work, as the audiance could take the view seen that before want something different.

So the tropes come into play

It's the same now it sucks

It's changed now it sucks.

Well, there are often surprises when it comes to how the audience will react to a new show.

 

[φ of π]

That's just what I said. I said she had scruples taking the lungs back.

Obviously she let those two Vidiians go secure in the knowledge that they'd never, ever steal the organs of another innocent person and kill them. I sure hope any future victims of those two were comforted by the thought that Janeway did the right thing by letting these two mass-murderers escape.

 

[WebLurker]

Obviously she let those two Vidiians go secure in the knowledge that they'd never, ever steal the organs of another innocent person and kill them. I sure hope any future victims of those two were comforted by the thought that Janeway did the right thing by letting these two mass-murderers escape.

In all honesty, I don't think I'd have felt guilty about forcing them to return the lungs myself. (My memories of the Vidiian episodes are pretty bad and I didn't see all of them, but I did find it interesting that Danara Pel was the only one shown to be a "good guy.")