Truly Star Crossed Lovers

[aeverett]

I have been re-watching Demons and Terra Prime recently and thinking about Paxton's allusion to Romeo and Juliet in regards to Trip and T'Pol. Now we know Spock was officially the first successful Vulcan/Human hybrid, so the two of them officially having biological children had always been out as it would have violated cannon, but that didn't mean they couldn't have forged an exclusive, lifelong romantic relationship, which is why I rooted for them from 'Breaking the Ice' onward.

In retrospect, however, I'm beginning to consider that it was meant to be truly and tragically fated from the start, like the real Romeo and Juliet. Do you think that that was what the producers had in mind? Do you think Paxton was given those lines as a statement of intent or were they just meaningless dialogue?

 

[2takesfrakes]

An interesting discussion can be had out of this, but at the same time, I've always felt that Trip & T'Pol were basically just leaves on the wind, as it were. In Real Life, of course, love changes ... escalates. With these two, one episode Trip only lets go of T'Pol long enough to lock the door. In the next? T'Pol is indifferent. Insensitive. And the episode after that? Their Psychic Mating Bond is pronounced, cementing their relationship ... and so on. So, applying the Romeo & Juliet comparison is just as valid as any other comparison that could've been made at any step, along the way. There was never any rhyme or reason to their Love, it seems like ...

 

[Tracy Trek]

Did anyone on here predict a relationship for the 2 of them from the start? When the series started, my aunt and I were talking about it and she thought maybe it would be T'Pol and Archer. I said it would be T'Pol and Trip.

 

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Trip and T'Pol - from the very first non-handshake!

 

[Christopher]

I have been re-watching Demons and Terra Prime recently and thinking about Paxton's allusion to Romeo and Juliet in regards to Trip and T'Pol. Now we know Spock was officially the first successful Vulcan/Human hybrid, so the two of them officially having biological children had always been out as it would have violated cannon, but that didn't mean they couldn't have forged an exclusive, lifelong romantic relationship, which is why I rooted for them from 'Breaking the Ice' onward.

I don't think it was ever canonically stated that Spock was the first human-Vulcan hybrid; that's just what was presumed in fandom and in offscreen material. Indeed, the second pilot initially just said that one of Spock's ancestors married a human woman, implying that the first hybrid had been several generations earlier. The next episode produced, "The Corbomite Maneuver," clarified that Spock's mother was human, but in the next episode, "Mudd's Women," Harry Mudd didn't seem surprised when he said to Spock, "You're part-Vulcanian, aren't you?" (Which was the first time Spock's species was named, surprisingly enough.)

Did anyone on here predict a relationship for the 2 of them from the start? When the series started, my aunt and I were talking about it and she thought maybe it would be T'Pol and Archer. I said it would be T'Pol and Trip.

The producers were playing a romantic tension between Archer and T'Pol throughout the first season, eventually bringing it into the open in "A Night in Sickbay" and mercifully dropping it thereafter. I don't think they started exploring a T'Pol-Tucker thing until season 3.

What TV producers often do early in a series is to test out various possible romantic pairings to see which actors have chemistry, and then writing toward the relationship that plays the best. Which often results in romances developing between characters you wouldn't expect, e.g. Arrow's Oliver Queen ending up with Felicity Smoak rather than Laurel Lance.

 

[bookworm8571]

That's probably the interpretation the writers intended -- a foreshadowing of Spock and the successful pairing of Sarek and Amanda.

After binge watching the series on Amazon for the first time, though, I prefer to believe that the ultimately successful marriage of Trip and T'Pol is part of the unknown history of the Star Trek universe. I think the last episode of the series was largely fictional. In my personal head canon, Trip and T'Pol had a long, happy marriage, had more children and their family was involved in the formation of the Federation in ways that the later Star Trek characters simply weren't privy to.

 

[eyeresist]

we know Spock was officially the first successful Vulcan/Human hybrid

Really? I don't think that's canonical. There's no mention of it here:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Spock


Actually, I imagine that for some humans and Vulcans there would be a strong mutual attraction. Vulcans have strong passions beneath a cool exterior, which is always intriguing. Humans represent a kind of liberated existence which I imagine some Vulcans would envy, and given the choice of an emotional partner, humans are a much safer option than Klingons or Andorians.
Given this, I think there would probably have been a few pair-ups over the years. Not a huge number, but not zero either.

 

[bookworm8571]

Now that I think of it, I don't remember whether the original series ever said whether Spock was the first Vulcan-human hybrid or if Sarek or Amanda were the first Vulcan-human married couple. Is there anywhere in the movies or series where they said so. The Vulcan children certainly gave Spock a hard time and called Amanda names, so it can't have been commonplace or well accepted.

Vulcans and humans are pretty much a classic case of opposites attract. It's classic storytelling. Rewatching Enterprise, though, I'm getting the impression that a lot of what humans thought they knew about Vulcan was largely propaganda. Human males on the ship seem to be titillated by T'Pol and the idea that Vulcans have sex only once every seven years, so stories like that are probably part of the attraction. But there are these subcultures that the Vulcans don't like to acknowledge (Vulcans without logic, the group that T'Pau belonged to, the prejudice against mind melders, etc.) T'Pol was never "emotionless," even from the first episode. Maybe she's a bit of a misfit in Vulcan society because of her struggles to control her feelings, but her mother and the ambassador and the Vulcan High Council don't look all that controlled either.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Did anyone on here predict a relationship for the 2 of them from the start? When the series started, my aunt and I were talking about it and she thought maybe it would be T'Pol and Archer. I said it would be T'Pol and Trip.

Quite a few people, actually. Personally, I was in the Archer/T'Pol camp, but the writing was very clearly on the wall by "Similitude" which way the show was going. I only wished the couple got better writing in season four.

 

[Mach5]

Did anyone on here predict a relationship for the 2 of them from the start? When the series started, my aunt and I were talking about it and she thought maybe it would be T'Pol and Archer. I said it would be T'Pol and Trip.

I called it when they stared each other down in Broken Bow. Virtually every argument they had in that pilot was abundant with sexual tension.

 

[Kor]

Now that I think of it, I don't remember whether the original series ever said whether Spock was the first Vulcan-human hybrid or if Sarek or Amanda were the first Vulcan-human married couple. Is there anywhere in the movies or series where they said so.

Those ideas were never stated in any series or movie. Hence, they are not canon, just like Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet is not canon.

Kor

 

[Nyotarules]

That's probably the interpretation the writers intended -- a foreshadowing of Spock and the successful pairing of Sarek and Amanda.

After binge watching the series on Amazon for the first time, though, I prefer to believe that the ultimately successful marriage of Trip and T'Pol is part of the unknown history of the Star Trek universe. I think the last episode of the series was largely fictional. In my personal head canon, Trip and T'Pol had a long, happy marriage, had more children and their family was involved in the formation of the Federation in ways that the later Star Trek characters simply weren't privy to.

And the Romulan war novels agree with ya!

 

[Nyotarules]

Now that I think of it, I don't remember whether the original series ever said whether Spock was the first Vulcan-human hybrid or if Sarek or Amanda were the first Vulcan-human married couple. Is there anywhere in the movies or series where they said so. The Vulcan children certainly gave Spock a hard time and called Amanda names, so it can't have been commonplace or well accepted.

Vulcans and humans are pretty much a classic case of opposites attract. It's classic storytelling. Rewatching Enterprise, though, I'm getting the impression that a lot of what humans thought they knew about Vulcan was largely propaganda. Human males on the ship seem to be titillated by T'Pol and the idea that Vulcans have sex only once every seven years, so stories like that are probably part of the attraction. But there are these subcultures that the Vulcans don't like to acknowledge (Vulcans without logic, the group that T'Pau belonged to, the prejudice against mind melders, etc.) T'Pol was never "emotionless," even from the first episode. Maybe she's a bit of a misfit in Vulcan society because of her struggles to control her feelings, but her mother and the ambassador and the Vulcan High Council don't look all that controlled either.

I also find it hard to believe that 100 years after First Contact Trip and T'Pol are the first to play 'find the Terran sausage'. Its probably similar to our past attitude to gay couples, alien and human couples keep it on the downlow until it becames 'socially acceptable' to be married or coupled with an alien. I can imagine the headlines 'Woman marries little green man'!
As for Spock being teased in school for being different, even human kids need no excuse to pick on others even if the person who is different is not the only one in the school. (Personal experience)

 

[bookworm8571]

I tracked down the novels. Apparently Trip faked his death, underwent genetic engineering that probably gave him a longer lifespan as a side effect, went under cover as a spy in the Romulan Empire and was involved in the events leading up to the Romulan War, then came back to Vulcan, married T'Pol and had two kids, T'Mir and Lorian. Much more satisfying than the final episode of the series.

I also would find it hard to believe that they were the first to have relations, given human history. If they were both humanoid, there would have been mating involved, probably within the first decade of First Contact! Maybe the first adventurous Vulcan who hooked up with a human did it for 'research.'

 

[Nyotarules]

I tracked down the novels. Apparently Trip faked his death, underwent genetic engineering that probably gave him a longer lifespan as a side effect, went under cover as a spy in the Romulan Empire and was involved in the events leading up to the Romulan War, then came back to Vulcan, married T'Pol and had two kids, T'Mir and Lorian. Much more satisfying than the final episode of the series.

I also would find it hard to believe that they were the first to have relations, given human history. If they were both humanoid, there would have been mating involved, probably within the first decade of First Contact! Maybe the first adventurous Vulcan who hooked up with a human did it for 'research.'

That's my head canon . I can imagine a Vulcan female being the first to 'dip' into the Terran pool and doing 'research' until death they do part lol A male might theorise they are too strong to be sexual partners for 'weakling' humans or be scared their Ponn Farr secret will slip out.
An excellent FF writer (startrekfanwriter) had Vulcan/Human couples under a 'Vulcan witness protection' programme when the man went into Ponn Farr. Its a great story!

 

[Christopher]

Actually, don't we already know from canon that the first Vulcan to have sex with a human (or at least to date one) was Mestral from "Carbon Creek"?

 

[Nyotarules]

Actually, don't we already know from canon that the first Vulcan to have sex with a human (or at least to date one) was Mestral from "Carbon Creek"?

Oh yes, unless Mestral died from hormonal imbalamce, he had to have a partner or was visiting ladies (or men) of the night for 'magic moments'.

 

[bookworm8571]

But Vulcan women also undergo pon farr, based on the series, so a human of any sex would encounter and deal with it.

I wonder how humans did deal with pon farr with an out of control alien much stronger than they were. A few bad experiences might have discouraged some human-Vulcan marriages in the early days. Most Vulcans were bonded very young to other Vulcans, so that also likely made human-Vulcan pairings rare. If Vulcans connect telepathically with their sexual partners, maybe they also found that most humans weren't sensitive enough to connect with.

But T'Pol and Trip did end up bonding mentally and he presumably would have been able to deal with her in the midst of a violent pon farr, just as Amanda must have been able to handle Sarek. My theory is that some humans must have had rudimentary telepathic ability that made them attractive partners to Vulcans, but most were completely void of psychic ability. I also think one of the advantages for humans mating with Vulcans might have been an extended life span. Maybe they pick up enhanced health through the bond. Take a look at the youngish looking Amanda in the remake movie.

 

[Nyotarules]

^In my head canon only Vulcan males get it. T'Pol was born male that's why she got it lol
I like the fanon idea that what Vulcans consider 'out of control' Ponn Farr sex (no one has seen it in action after all) would be called premature ejaculation in human males lol

 

[bookworm8571]

Naw. If it has something to do with reproduction, it makes more sense if both sexes experience it.

They've never explained exactly how it works, but Vulcans are probably ready to reproduce years after they appear physically adult. T'Pol in her mid 60s had not experienced pon farr. Spock was in his mid 30s, but may have had advanced development because he was part human. Pon farr may signal reproductive maturity.