STC Ep. 7: "Embrace The Winds" speculation and discussion....

[Warped9]

So you're implying that I'm being disingenuous?!? Okay....

I at least was giving people the benefit of the doubt that they were calling things the way they saw it, which is exactly what I'm doing.

The show's underlying message is one of inclusiveness. Nonetheless given the times the show was produced missteps happened. Yet to believe the writers and producers knowingly made a sexist declaration counter to everything the show supposedly stood for doesn't make sense, for me at least.

"Turnabout Intruder" is a bungled episode on many levels. Why give it more credence as a deliberate sexist declaration rather than allow for a more positive interpretation?

This is where STC really dropped the ball. Firstly they used this to yet again make a callout to a post TOS production which was completely unnecessary. But moreso they chose to try rationalizing something that made no sense whatsoever--barring women from Constitution-class command in a (fictional) era when such barriers are not supposed to exist.

The better story they ignored--staring them in the face--was having Garrett being investigated for possible wrongdoing (like Kirk once was) and within that raise the issue whether she is being unfairly scrutinized because of her gender. That is certainly a contemporary issue. And make it more interesting by making Garrett not the easiest person to like which could make her more believable as a character.

By trying to rationalize a stupid episode they made it all worse.

 

[Amaris]

The show's underlying message is one of inclusiveness. Nonetheless given the times the show was produced missteps happened. Yet to believe the writers and producers knowingly made a sexist declaration counter to everything the show supposedly stood for doesn't make sense, for me at least.

"Turnabout Intruder" is a bungled episode on many levels. Why give it more credence as a deliberate sexist declaration rather than allow for a more positive interpretation?

This is where STC really dropped the ball. Firstly they used this to yet again make a callout to a post TOS production which was completely unnecessary. But moreso they chose to try rationalizing something that made no sense whatsoever--barring women from Constitution-class command in a (fictional) era when such barriers are not supposed to exist.

The better story they ignored--staring them in the face--was having Garrett being investigated for possible wrongdoing (like Kirk once was) and within that raise the issue whether she is being unfairly scrutinized because of her gender. That is certainly a contemporary issue. And make it more interesting by making Garrett not the easiest person to like which could make her more believable as a character.

By trying to rationalize a stupid episode they made it all worse.

In Balance of Terror, Martine, being a woman, was expected to leave the service once she got married to Tomlinson, for whom no such statement was made. So the underlying sexism and gender inequality was there. Then again, Star Trek was a product of its time. While I do not and will not condone it, I accept that the show could be misogynistic, and sexist at times, because Roddenberry himself could be misogynist and sexist. The Great Bird was not immune to such things, and it showed in some of his work. I like that STC tried to put some kind of political, modern day spin on it. I don't know if it really worked for me, but in the context of such episodes as Turnabout Intruder, they at least gave it the old college try, and I appreciate that.

 

[Warped9]

Nowhere in "Balance Of Terror" is it stated she has to leave the service if she got married. Even in The Making Of Star Trek it diesn't say that. It does say if she gets pregnant she has to rotate out to shore duty for the duration of her pregnancy, but it diesn't say she has to resign.

 

[Amaris]

Nowhere in "Balance Of Terror" is it stated she has to leave the service if she got married. Even in The Making Of Star Trek it diesn't say that. It does say if she gets pregnant she has to rotate out to shore duty for the duration of her pregnancy, but it diesn't say she has to resign.

Oops, my mistake. I confused that line with another episode. It's from "Who Mourns For Adonais?" where Kirk speaks of Lt. Palamas when he says, "On the other hand, she’s a woman. All woman. One day she’ll find the right man and off she’ll go, out of the service.”

TOS had a misogynist and sexist bent against women.

 

[Warped9]

Oops, my mistake. I confused that line with another episode. It's from "Who Mourns For Adonais?" where Kirk speaks of Lt. Palamas when he says, "On the other hand, she’s a woman. All woman. One day she’ll find the right man and off she’ll go, out of the service.”

TOS had a misogynist and sexist bent against women.

McCoy is stating (in his opinion) what could happen, not what will definitely happen possibly based on what he knows (or doesn't know) about her as a person. People make assumptions about others all the time.

 

[Amaris]

McCoy is stating (in his opinion) what could happen, not what will definitely happen possibly based on what he knows (or doesn't know) about her as a person. People make assumptions about others all the time.

So why would he state it? None of this is at all natural, it's all scripted. This was meant to be said by a main character, a hero, a professional, a male, towards another member of the crew, who was a woman, one who was exemplary in her work. Why would McCoy, a noted professional in his field, say that about a colleague in a highly complex field, whom he doesn't know personally? What would that say of me if I saw a woman who was a lawyer and said "sure, she's great at her job, but just wait until she gets married and quits the legal profession. She's all woman, that one." I'll help: it would say I was sexist.

 

[CaptainMurdock]

McCoy's an old fashioned country doctor.

 

[rRico]

The 1960s were still quite sexist. This bleeds into the fiction written in that time. Accept it. It can't be argued away. The fictional world of the Federation is better than the world it was created in. Even only 50 years later we can only look back and shake our heads at the kind of thinking back then.
We are much better now, and the fictional world of Star Trek will always be better than whatever Now the viewer first sees any bit of Trek.

 

[rRico]

In Balance of Terror, Martine, being a woman, was expected to leave the service once she got married to Tomlinson, for whom no such statement was made. So the underlying sexism and gender inequality was there. Then again, Star Trek was a product of its time. While I do not and will not condone it, I accept that the show could be misogynistic, and sexist at times, because Roddenberry himself could be misogynist and sexist. The Great Bird was not immune to such things, and it showed in some of his work. I like that STC tried to put some kind of political, modern day spin on it. I don't know if it really worked for me, but in the context of such episodes as Turnabout Intruder, they at least gave it the old college try, and I appreciate that.

Embrace the Wind is such a bad episode because it presumes the world of Star Trek to be worse than the one we now live in. That is not the kind of positive outlook we expect from Trek. It is as out of place as anything in Turnabout Intruder.

 

[Amaris]

Embrace the Wind is such a bad episode because it presumes the world of Star Trek to be worse than the one we now live in. That is not the kind of positive outlook we expect from Trek. It is as out of place as anything in Turnabout Intruder.

Humanity, in TOS, is never presented as a utopia. There will be flaws, even in a system that is better than our own. There is also the old adage about history, and what happens when we forget the lessons it teaches us.

 

[rRico]

Humanity, in TOS, is never presented as a utopia. There will be flaws, even in a system that is better than our own. There is also the old adage about history, and what happens when we forget the lessons it teaches us.

Flaws are to be expected. But not discrimination on such a level.

 

[Phoenix219]

This is where it really looks like you're reaching. I mean, I thought you were reaching before, but adding "she's also making grammatical mistakes" in order for the dialog to fit your narrative is taking it to whole new level. Sorry.

I wouldn't call it a grammatical mistake; I'd call it generalizing, romanticizing, or whatever other metaphoric term you want to call it. Its not a mistake. People speak like that.

 

[Amaris]

Flaws are to be expected. But not discrimination on such a level.

In the 21st century, an age where we have reached the edges of our solar system with our own man made satellites, where we've mapped the human genome, discovered worlds light years away that may harbor life, where we're finding new ways to kill diseases that have plagued mankind for centuries, we're also squabbling over whether or not women should get paid on the same scale as men. We're actively pushing against people who believe that global climate change is nothing but a hoax. Diseases we eradicated decades ago are returning due to ignorance. We still have people sending money to televangelists who promise to call upon God to heal them in return for that "seed offering."

Slavery was abolished 151 years ago in the United States. Race relations today are still touch and go, even though people of color were considered "free" and "equal" centuries past. There are some traits in humanity that simply do not go away, regardless of the improvements in our technology.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Watched it again, and while I love all of the cast, in this episode, Todd Haberkorn is Spock.

Yep. I remember when I saw Continues' first post-"Turnabout Intruder" clip and was like, "NFW is that Spock!" but his performance in "Fairest of Them All" won me over big time. It doesn't feel like a Nimoy imitation to me, but it does feel like Mr Spock.

 

[Warped9]

I wouldn't call it a grammatical mistake; I'd call it generalizing, romanticizing, or whatever other metaphoric term you want to call it. Its not a mistake. People speak like that.

Exactly.

 

[Kemaiku]

Personally, I'd have prefered they split it up as a two parter of 30 minutes each.

Made the issue about a female Tellarite commander submitting for command of a non-Constitution class (maybe finally bring in the Miranda) and have Kirk acting as a character reference in a naval review board, not trail.

Tellar society split after joining the Federation, with many minorities thinking they would finally have equality, only to have the government double down on discrimination. Tellar supplying Dlilithium to the Federation meant any interference would cost them materially in a way they couldn't afford.

Have Human female starship captains, or at least one, appear to defend her too. You could have had several Tellarites and expanded on their culture, featuring the progressives and conservatives of their world. The whole Federation is watching, and Jim is putting his own career at risk if this goes south and costs them the mining agreements.

The B-plot would be Spock being given command of the Hood temporarily until another captain stepped forward but with the shortage, it's looking a lot like him taking over permanently. The story on the Hood would have revolved around his inner turmoil of having a position he never wanted. That and feeling that he is losing his composure, the sight of the dead Hood crew causing him irrational sense of dread.

Some strange energy from the anomaly has bonded to the Hood's power grid and causes wild fluctuations in it, leaving most of the story there as it happened, but with added drama from Spock feeling he's both losing his emotional control and failed at his task. Hint a the energy being from a disruption weapon and that it was possibly responsible for taking out some of the other Constitutions...

They all meet up at the starbase, Spock must admit his failure, and we see the begginings of him turning to the idea of Kholinar. Jim narrowly manages to secure the Tellarite captaincy, and save his own, with Tellar Prime now unsure of their future with the Federation. But we can try and put a happier spin on that, implying they'll adapt well enough, stubborn as they are.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Using an alien society (as a mirror of our contemporary one) to tell this story would have been very TOS like.

 

[Kemaiku]

That's what I was thinking, Star Trek has always used an alien society to stand in for an issue in our culture. So it seemed strange for them to use humans as the flawed race, on this issue in particular. Tellarites I could definitely believe as having an unequal society at that point.

Instead we get a message telling every female fan watching that she and her daughers, grand daughters etc will for some reason have to endure another 250 years of this state endorsed discrimination.

When even the official productions, whatever anyone may think of the new movies, at least shows women serving equally in Starfleet at that time, with Commodore Paris incharge of Yorktown for goodness sake.

I know that brings up the issue of the cost of putting so many actors in Tellarite costume, with the female star being in that for hours during filming.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Actually I could see needing only two Tellerites in costume: a female (the Starfleet officer) and a male (the Tellerite ambassador). Their society could be represented through them.

What really undermined this whole story was the Tellerite ambassador basically telling Kirk, "Yeah, we've still got some knuckle draggers around, but don't worry about it."

So they were banging their heads against the wall for nothing.


This whole episode was nothing but fan service from the callouts to micking scenes from "Courtmartial" for something that could have been handled much simply than a formal hearing.

 

[Kemaiku]

True, I'm sure some of them would have been willing to go through the makeup process long enough for that.

It was a cop out, and a rushed one. It still doesn't entirely excuse Starfleet being allowed to enforce a no-women doctrine based on another cultures failings, when I'm sure the Federations diplomatic division would have been aware of the split in Tellar's social attitudes. Even now, regimes like North Korea have been able to show dissent that outsiders have witnessed.

Having female Tellarites only progress so far through the ranks, before members of their race higher up in Starfleet keep turning down their application for command or advancement, through a veto or threat of trade embargoes on Starfleet makes more sense.

It means only turning down a small number of candidates, to keep Dilithium and other materials needed for starships (when they're losing more of them) flowing into their shipyards.

The Garret tie in was almost as bad, since we know her great great grand daughter will command an Enterprise. I don't even know why the Tucker award was mentioned as from the Enterprise novels, they would want to keep his name as quiet as possible historically. About the only one that was subtle was the Aenar.

And a small review board would have reused the Enterprise briefing room set, with different penants and decoration representing the Starbase, maybe with some added consoles and extras in the diplomatic costumes, saving money for the makeup and Hood scenes.

Promoting someone outside of humans finally gives us better representation not only of women in Starfleet, but the non-human species. Makes it more believeable that Jim would endanger his own career to fight for someones elses rights, and gives us a look at the adversity captains face from three different perspectives (Jim, Spock and her, or four with a human female captain as well).

I mean the episode did give us this discussion, if nothing else. And maybe other productions will take something from all this and come up with ideas of their own about it.