Jeri Ryan
- Thread starter Ally
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If Mulgrew didn't appreciate her show being stolen by Ryan, I certainly can understand that. On the other hand, I can't really blame Jeri for taking advantage of her position, either. Hollywood's a cut-throat business, that's for certain. One day you're a star ... the next, you're in a rubbish heap.
Numerous sources confirm Mulgrew treated Ryan like shit throughout their time working together. The way the firing of Lien and hiring of Ryan was handled was unprofessional to the point of incompetent. It's understandable that the actors (employees) were unhappy. Its a shame Mulgrew felt the need to exaberate the already uncomfortably situation by punishing Ryan for how the PTB handled things.
I'm a Kes fan, so I can't say that VOYAGER was well-served by giving her the boot, especially the way they did, but doing it at all was a mistake. She did need more focus, especially now that Neelix was kicked to the curb. A little more investigation into the character and her abilities offers much to look forward to and all of that's just thrown out, in favour of bringing in outside T&A, for the sake of it. Jennifer Lien was very beautiful, she didn't owe on that count ...
Neelix?
What are you asking, Finn? Specify ...
Another Kes/Ryan debate? Sigh
Think about Mulgrew's professionalism, and the cultural influence and attendent responsibility she bore as a Star Trek captain. TV's first female captain, in an egalitarian society transforming itself in the wake of millennia of gender inequality. (The nonfictional world, I mean).
Think of her female (permanent cast) Trek forebears: strong, vital characters: Tasha Yar, based on the tough-as-nails Private Vasquez of the film Aliens; Beverly Crusher, an educated, refined, implacable professional; Deanna Troi, a moral beacon who manages to retain her soft femininity in an era of Romulan shoulder pads for women - (the nonfictional world, I mean); women who had to choose between subservience or masculine swagger if they wanted to get anywhere.
Consider Mulgrew's own personality, which she drew from in her relative lack of knowledge of Trek lore; and her professional choices as an actor in the role: intelligent, vibrant, vulnerable, courageous, and ethically immovable once she'd made her choice.
...Enter Tits McGee.
What, no nipple lasers?
Credit to Ryan - and the other Jeri, Jeri Taylor. The characterization of Tits McGee redeemed itself, and even became a wholesome role model in her own right; especially for some families with biracial children from collective societies. Providing deft articulation and handling of the salient issues, with positive perspectives and growth.
Mulgrew must certainly recognize and value that contribution, finally.
But you can see where she would have initial reservations, as the injection of a walking adolescent domination fantasy would no doubt undermine the productive gender roles - and risk the positive cultural influence they had all worked so hard to develop.
As it was Voyager still struggled to empower female authority without weakening their male counterparts (and undermining their own purpose). In Voyager's defense, call this a more widespread cultural push to undermine Judeo-Christian male authority, if you like, under the banner of ostensible "equality".
I suppose the swingback in invalidating conventional masculine power was a bit greater than the push for actual gender-blind respect. As is often the case in TV shows and reality: reverse biases. See gender, race, SES, morality, ad nauseum.
(Which begs the question: do they really want egalitarian peace - or POWER? The first US black president negotiating with communists for sweatshop trade comes to mind, but that's a rant for another stardate log).
Because power is won through good old-fashioned self-serving bias, and that seems to be their rules of play - and the fair play of turnabout. But rather than my constructing a grand conspiratorial house of cards to explain it, Occam's Razor has an alternative, perhaps more parsimonious explanation:
By engendering a sense of (economic) independence and autonomy in its viewership - TV sponsors can sell more soap. An exponential assimilation of its target demographics.
The characterization of Seven of Nine may mostly serve to retain Trek's core fan base, who may or may not wield a kind of "ratings veto power". Hello demise 3 years early, Enterprise.
Was Mulgrew being a "bitch"? No more than Shatner was a lecher. What's the problem? We're all grownups. The kids are on the other side of the screen - making purchasing decisions.
Think of her female (permanent cast) Trek forebears: strong, vital characters: Tasha Yar, based on the tough-as-nails Private Vasquez of the film Aliens; Beverly Crusher, an educated, refined, implacable professional; Deanna Troi, a moral beacon who manages to retain her soft femininity in an era of Romulan shoulder pads for women - (the nonfictional world, I mean); women who had to choose between subservience or masculine swagger if they wanted to get anywhere.
Consider Mulgrew's own personality, which she drew from in her relative lack of knowledge of Trek lore; and her professional choices as an actor in the role: intelligent, vibrant, vulnerable, courageous, and ethically immovable once she'd made her choice.
...Enter Tits McGee.
What, no nipple lasers?
Credit to Ryan - and the other Jeri, Jeri Taylor. The characterization of Tits McGee redeemed itself, and even became a wholesome role model in her own right; especially for some families with biracial children from collective societies. Providing deft articulation and handling of the salient issues, with positive perspectives and growth.
Mulgrew must certainly recognize and value that contribution, finally.
But you can see where she would have initial reservations, as the injection of a walking adolescent domination fantasy would no doubt undermine the productive gender roles - and risk the positive cultural influence they had all worked so hard to develop.
As it was Voyager still struggled to empower female authority without weakening their male counterparts (and undermining their own purpose). In Voyager's defense, call this a more widespread cultural push to undermine Judeo-Christian male authority, if you like, under the banner of ostensible "equality".
I suppose the swingback in invalidating conventional masculine power was a bit greater than the push for actual gender-blind respect. As is often the case in TV shows and reality: reverse biases. See gender, race, SES, morality, ad nauseum.
(Which begs the question: do they really want egalitarian peace - or POWER? The first US black president negotiating with communists for sweatshop trade comes to mind, but that's a rant for another stardate log).
Because power is won through good old-fashioned self-serving bias, and that seems to be their rules of play - and the fair play of turnabout. But rather than my constructing a grand conspiratorial house of cards to explain it, Occam's Razor has an alternative, perhaps more parsimonious explanation:
By engendering a sense of (economic) independence and autonomy in its viewership - TV sponsors can sell more soap. An exponential assimilation of its target demographics.
The characterization of Seven of Nine may mostly serve to retain Trek's core fan base, who may or may not wield a kind of "ratings veto power". Hello demise 3 years early, Enterprise.
Was Mulgrew being a "bitch"? No more than Shatner was a lecher. What's the problem? We're all grownups. The kids are on the other side of the screen - making purchasing decisions.
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I've heard the gossip and the internet rumors and the implications behind questions and answers at convention panels.
All I can say is, if Mulgrew didn't like Ryan, she was enough of a professional to keep those feelings out of her performance, and for that, I admire her as an actress. The onscreen relationship between Janeway and Seven of Nine had a depth and a tenderness that sometimes, on its best days, rivaled the friendship of Kirk and Spock. That's what I see on the screen and love about the show, no matter how anyone feels in the so-called really real world.
All I can say is, if Mulgrew didn't like Ryan, she was enough of a professional to keep those feelings out of her performance, and for that, I admire her as an actress. The onscreen relationship between Janeway and Seven of Nine had a depth and a tenderness that sometimes, on its best days, rivaled the friendship of Kirk and Spock. That's what I see on the screen and love about the show, no matter how anyone feels in the so-called really real world.
I have noticed that Captain and Seven have had their fights as well. It turns out that Kate Mulgrew's (Captain's actress) facial expressions were real. In the episode "Prey" I bet that Mulgrew enjoyed it when Captain ended up restricting Seven's privileges on the ship.
Even though Seven was half the age of Captain Janeway, Seven could easily qualify as a starship captain herself, since she already has the knowledge. In The Omega episode, both of them were discussing The Omega Directive. Captain Janeway normally would not discuss this with another member of her crew.
Part of Mulgrew's anger toward Ryan is because Mulgrew is supposed to be the star of the show.
But they shouldn't have fired anybody over this. It seems people don't like Kes or Harry but I think they should have fired Chakotay or Tom. I like the Borg storyline. It is important to Voyager but they should have written Seven into the show perhaps at the end of the first season or end of the second season.
Even though Seven was half the age of Captain Janeway, Seven could easily qualify as a starship captain herself, since she already has the knowledge. In The Omega episode, both of them were discussing The Omega Directive. Captain Janeway normally would not discuss this with another member of her crew.
Part of Mulgrew's anger toward Ryan is because Mulgrew is supposed to be the star of the show.
But they shouldn't have fired anybody over this. It seems people don't like Kes or Harry but I think they should have fired Chakotay or Tom. I like the Borg storyline. It is important to Voyager but they should have written Seven into the show perhaps at the end of the first season or end of the second season.
I can understand Mulgrew. A good friend was kicked out and they bring in a new person who immediately takes over Mulgrew's role as the star of the show, doing that with the blessing and praises from the pathetic bunch in charge.
If that would have happened to me where I work, I would have been very upset and probably acted the same way.
Also strange that so many blame Mulgrew. What do we know about Ryan in this possible conflict? Was she totally innocent?
Anyway, the blame has to be put on those in charge. They screwed up everything.
If that would have happened to me where I work, I would have been very upset and probably acted the same way.
Also strange that so many blame Mulgrew. What do we know about Ryan in this possible conflict? Was she totally innocent?
Anyway, the blame has to be put on those in charge. They screwed up everything.
did they live together at some point? I thought they were "just" dating.
I understand that she was not happy to have such a character on the show. And maybe they didn't get along on set, no big deal. Nobody said you have to be friends with your coworkers. But it never showed in their performances.
Why do people say it was unprofessional the way Lien was let go? Does anyone have facts to back this up?
Firstly, the character of Harry Kim would have been killed in S3 (1997) BUT his performer, Garrett Wang, was lucky to just be named, one of People Magazine's 50 most beautiful people in the world, and as one of the "20 Coolest Bachelors" in the country by E! Entertainment Television (what was a hell of reference, wasn't it?!
) at the same time. Result: 1) Paramount felt forced to keep him to maintain the interest of its female audience (Mc Neil, Wang and Beltran) and ordered to producers, in particular Berman, to change their plans to get Harry Kim remaining aboard -> the producers obeyed in spite of Wang's evident lack of talent and his anti-professional atitude (numerous delays, no knowledge of his dialogues, undisciplined) on sets but they have ensured not to give him what he wanted the most, a promotion for his character - who still was a simple Enseign after several years - and, some better stories ... though Wang, was better treated than Beltran, in this domain!); 2) because Wang/Kim stayed and it was necessarely to to free some place for the arrival of Jeri Ryan and her sexiness (even if the actress has proved talented -> I don't think that it could have worked on the long term if she had been worthless), the same producers - minus Jeri Taylor, the only female member, who was totally opposed to this idea - decided to fire Jennifer Lien, the actress who performed the role of Kes, because her character was considered as one of the less popular characters aboard according to a another poll (Harry Kim aka Wang was very closed behind!).For my part, Lien, who was maybe not as talented as Ryan - but better than Wang and Beltran -, could have been kept somehow or other. I mean, maybe Nurse Kes was useless but a counselor hologram named Sek for example, would have been more interesting, especially with a Borg looking for getting her humanity back and a holo Doctor who too often showed his limits when it was a question of helping her...
In fact, it seems to me that the big problem was in the choices of the executives of Paramount, who have given priority to some secondary aspects like big names, glamour and sexiness, stupid polls, instead of getting talented and efficient people (from actors/actresses to scriptwriters). And on their side, Berman and Cie, were too shy to impose their will (the non-renewal of Wang and Beltran's contracts when it was possible, better scripts, etc....).
Secondly, about the relationship between Mulgrew and Ryan, yes, they were bad during the whole 4th season. I guess that the tension can be felt in their scenes though they managed to remain professional when they shooted. Afterward, they improved (we can see them chatting and laughing together between the scenes). Mulgrew apologised for her behaviour after to have explained her reasons and Ryan stopped to behave as a victim and to fuss for anything (we always talk about Mulgrew/Ryan's feud but don't forget that the rest of the team, though less outspoken, wasn't nicer to Ryan (I invite you to read some interviews given by Beltran, Picardo and Philips. Even Dawson recognized that it had been very hard for her to work with Ryan instead of Lien).... . In brief, big smiles in front of the audience in conventions when Ryan is present and behind, criticies at will!
Seriously, it would be interesting to see Mulgrew and Ryan working together again, 15 years later. Both are very talented and that they want to recognize it or not, there is a very good synergy/chemistry between them!
Thirdly, I was surprise and disappointed that Jeri Ryan, who was herself the complete opposite of a sexual character (contrary to the felt of viewers) and who showed so much potential during 4 seasons, accepted that her character of Seven of Nine ends as "a consolation prize of a tall blonde sexy wife" (dixit Picardo) for an older man. Sad.
I don't think what Wang wanted most was a promotion. All kidding aside - and he does kid about it a lot it seems in his convention appearances - I find it hard to believe he'd really care what rank his character was. If it did matter that much to him, then to care about such things shows a serious lack of perspective.
I think it sounds more like they retaliated for these transgressions by preventing him from directing. He asked in the 5th, 6th, and 7th season to direct and was denied every time. In interviews about this, he's said that not getting the chance to direct when so many of his co-stars did "haunts" him (his word).
(mentioned in the last paragraph here...)
http://www.startrek.com/article/straight-talk-with-voyagerundefineds-garrett-wang-part-i
Honestly, from the producers' perspective, it makes sense. If it was a struggle for the guy to show up to work on time, are you really going to give him MORE responsibility? He dug himself into a hole with the producers, and that means he was going to have to do a lot more than his co-stars had to in order to convince them that he was worthy of a shot.
Early interviews around the time Voyager ended, he seemed quite angry about it, going so far as to walking right up to the line of saying it was racial bias.
http://www.trektoday.com/news/070301_01.shtml
In more recent years, he's been more accepting about it, thinking instead that it had to do with saying something negative about Rick Berman to the press, and hinted that his past problems on the show probably contributed to it.
From what little I've seen of Garrett in interviews/cons, he seems like a fun guy, and would have dived wholeheartedly into directing an episode, and with a lot of passion into the aspects of it he thought would be "fun" but when it comes down to the work of actually doing it, I get the sense that it'd be a real mess. Obviously I don't know the guy and I could be completely wrong, it's just a hunch.
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Others will know more about this but I believe if an actor wanted to direct they had to put in extra hours and go through a sort of 'school'. McNeil and Dawson apparently spent a great deal of time working on this. I heard that Wang was unwilling to put in the extra time. That's why he was not allowed to direct but that's just one version of events.
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