Was Kes a Good Character?

[Guy Gardener]

Kes started time travelling backwards from the moment of her death in Before and After, in a time line that was not speckled with a time travelling Kes.

No one in each new present she arrived at remembered her in the past claiming to be a time traveller with most of her memories missing.

As she continued to journey back to earlier presents, the future she just came from became impossible, because no one in the future was expecting her to leave when she will have did.

It was a self neutering trip.

 

[stardream]

What I am wondering about is what event happened in the final time line and didn't in "Before And After" that caused Kes to turn into a ball of light?

But given that borg space was impossible to avoid, wouldn't she have met 8472 in both cases?

We don't know. Events might have played out in such a way in the original timeline that they had no need to contact her.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Her telepathic experience with Species 8472. It somehow enhanced her already powerful telekinetic and psychic abilities.

Some blame that on the movie First Contact.

The interplexing beacon broadcasting from 21st century Earth upgraded the Borg before they met man in Q Who, which explains the wardrobe makeover for the Borg between the Tv series and the movie.

It's a new timeline.

 

[locutus101]

....
It was a self neutering trip.

You mean Archer's chief engineer lost his balls in the process? Wow!

 

[locutus101]

We don't know. Events might have played out in such a way in the original timeline that they had no need to contact her.

It sounds like you're saying that in the old time line the borg didn't invade 8472's space.

 

[stardream]

It sounds like you're saying that in the old time line the borg didn't invade 8472's space.

Maybe not. Those are good questions but time travel leads to more questions than answers.

 

[locutus101]

Maybe not. Those are good questions but time travel leads to more questions than answers.

It would seem so.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You mean Archer's chief engineer lost his balls in the process? Wow!

You only date a woman twice you age if you don't mind losing every argument.

 

[Sophie74656]

I guess that the daily cost they had for all four of them together were considerable higher than what was written on Lien's paycheck.

And no, Voyager didn't get better when Kes was dumped. It became a series centered on a "sexy" superwoman who could fix everything and her two assistants while the other characters were shoved in the background.

I don't know what their actual salaries were

and it's opinion...I think Voyager got much better after Kes left. I don't meant to say it was because she left, but that's just when it got better. There was also a change of staff at that point which probably had a lot to do with it.

 

[locutus101]

You only date a woman twice you age if you don't mind losing every argument.

Same thing if you date a woman half your age...

 

[Sophie74656]

I'm afraid I don't agree with this. First off, Voyager is high quality for me from CARETAKER to ENDGAME with the odd mediocre story and one awful episode (FURY).
And more importantly, if you think that the show got better, this must have had something to do with Seven joining them. I don't think it had anything to do with Kes leaving. Once Seven joined them, those stories revolving around her would have been interesting anyway, no matter if Kes was still on the ship or not. Seven's presence changed the tone of the show, not Kes's absence.
Also, if she had stayed, perhaps we would have got some good stories with her. To me, YEAR OF HELL doesn't make much sense without Kes after the events in BEFORE AND AFTER, and I wouldn't have minded a good Kes story instead of some of the pretty mediocre Seven-centered stories like RETROSPECT. Or instead of some other mediocre stories like THE DISEASE and most importantly, THE HAUNTING OF DECK TWELVE.

I was never a huge fan of Kes, but to me she was very easy to overlook in episodes. So I don't really think I liked the show better because she left. I just liked the stories better after the end of season 3. I honestly feel the same way about TNG and DS9, I'm not as big of a fan of their early seasons either.

And I actually enjoy The Haunting of Deck Twelve

 

[Lynx]

I don't know what their actual salaries were

and it's opinion...I think Voyager got much better after Kes left. I don't meant to say it was because she left, but that's just when it got better. There was also a change of staff at that point which probably had a lot to do with it.

Do you have any details about that "change of staff"? Didn't someone leave?

 

[Sophie74656]

Do you have any details about that "change of staff"? Didn't someone leave?

I don't remember all of the details, I'm sure someone here does. There was a change in writing staff or producers

 

[stardream]

From Memory Alpha:

There were four (showrunners) throughout the series' run: Michael Piller (EP/showrunner – first and second season), Jeri Taylor (EP – first through fourth season, showrunner – third and fourth season), Brannon Braga (EP/showrunner – fifth and sixth season), and Kenneth Biller (EP/showrunner – seventh season).

EP=Executive Producer.

 

[Sophie74656]

there you go, thank you!

 

[Thomas Eugene]

Crack 4 or five eggs into a bowl and beat them with a fork. A whisk is for assholes. Don't bother. Too hard to clean.

(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)

Stir in half a cup of sugar.

(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)

Add a cup of flour. Mix it in with a wooden spoon, or still the same fork from before.

(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)

Add a half a cup of milk. Seriously you can use the same fork still. Mix the bugger up.

(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)

Pour the finished batter onto a hot oiled/buttered skillet.

(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)

When bubbles start to pop on the top of the batter, take a spatula if you are a loser, or just flip your half done pancakes with that fork. Metal on metal is not the best, and some people might insist on on you using rubber tools with their expensive skillets.... Be a man, use the same fork!

(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)

Wait for the other side to brown and then remove finished pancake from skillet, put on serving dish, and repeat these steps until you have enough food to get fat.

(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)



Did that explain Annorax's weapon?

Extracting your eggs out of your semi/fully cooked pancakes and putting them back into their cracked shells, and obviously repairing the cracks until it seems like the eggs have never been cracked = The end of the episode Before and After where Tuvok says that he is going to debrief Kes about the Krenim (and Janeway's death).

After the temporal weapon had been fired hundreds of times, and then thousands of times, there came a point where Janeway did not any longer know that the Krenim killed her in the future because Before and After either didn't happen as we saw it, or didn't happen at all, so Kathy became portentless.

In every version of Time where she knows she's supposed to get murdered by the Krenim, SHE GOES AROUND KRENIM SPACE ...Just like she did at the end of the two parter, because going around Krenim space is not that big of a deal.

Now what did I tell you about the headache?