...if we go by your description (which I don't. You're ignoring other facts to make the argument work), then keeping Khan alive was the very opposite of 'convenient.'
Immortality is discovered and is then promptly ignored
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...if we go by your description (which I don't. You're ignoring other facts to make the argument work), then keeping Khan alive was the very opposite of 'convenient.'
I'd suggest that these transporter accidents aren't replicable, maybe not even theoretically because of quantum thingummies, or at least not replicable without killing the transportee 99 out of a 100 attempts.
Look how Mr. Scott failed for half his subjects in Relics. This ought to be a form of immortality too, with people having stored backups--or a form of time travel for people disaffected with the current era--but you don't see people rushing to do it. The reason for that is easy: Matt Franklin (the ensign whose pattern didn't make it in Relics).
So the best a top engineer and known Archmage of Transporters can do is save half his subjects, and that with forethinking and planning of details. Now try to copy a confluence of truly oddball events and make them produce the result you had the first time, reliably. For this wonderfully reliable thing called a transporter. Hoo boy.
(I am so with McCoy on these things. Zero chance I'd ever use one.)
Look how Mr. Scott failed for half his subjects in Relics. This ought to be a form of immortality too, with people having stored backups--or a form of time travel for people disaffected with the current era--but you don't see people rushing to do it. The reason for that is easy: Matt Franklin (the ensign whose pattern didn't make it in Relics).
So the best a top engineer and known Archmage of Transporters can do is save half his subjects, and that with forethinking and planning of details. Now try to copy a confluence of truly oddball events and make them produce the result you had the first time, reliably. For this wonderfully reliable thing called a transporter. Hoo boy.
(I am so with McCoy on these things. Zero chance I'd ever use one.)
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It was convenient because it gave a reason to Spock Not to kill Kahn the mass murderer.
It's 'Khan.' Not 'Kahn the Mass Murderer.'
And no. Characters being unable to extract blood from:
'Convenience' implies things have been set up to be easier for the characters, not more complicated. For eg. Being able to use Khans blood after Spock had dragged his mutilated corpse back to the Enterprise, would be convenient.
As for 'the blood making it easy for Spock to spare Khan,' Spock was never going to be killing Khan by himself. Khan had already won the fight, and was literally crushing Spock when Bones decided they needed Khan alive. Not only was the need for Khan's living blood not a 'convenient' save for him, it actively lead to his defeat after said 'need' prompted Uhura to beam down.
And no. Characters being unable to extract blood from:
1) Frozen people (Who must remain frozen.)
2) Someone who has bled to death from getting his head ripped off/ been vaporised (Spocks original plan.)
Is not 'convenient.'2) Someone who has bled to death from getting his head ripped off/ been vaporised (Spocks original plan.)
'Convenience' implies things have been set up to be easier for the characters, not more complicated. For eg. Being able to use Khans blood after Spock had dragged his mutilated corpse back to the Enterprise, would be convenient.
As for 'the blood making it easy for Spock to spare Khan,' Spock was never going to be killing Khan by himself. Khan had already won the fight, and was literally crushing Spock when Bones decided they needed Khan alive. Not only was the need for Khan's living blood not a 'convenient' save for him, it actively lead to his defeat after said 'need' prompted Uhura to beam down.
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In "Plato's Stepchildren", Spock discovers a serum that gives the crew telekinetic superpowers.
I'd LOVE to see a post-Nemesis Trek that embraced and explored everything Trek likes to pretend never happened. Essentially, it'd be a show about humanity adapting to not only telekenetic superpowers, but also instant teleportion almost anywhere (ST'09/ID) via commbadge-sized transporter (NEM), who never age and are cured of all illness with every transport, who reverse death with Borg nanoprobe technology ("Mortal Coil"), and who can also duplicate themselves at will ("Second Chances") and beam between universes if they do desire (DS9 MU episodes). Halfway to a Q. It wouldn't be much like Star Trek, but it would be interesting to say the least.
I'd LOVE to see a post-Nemesis Trek that embraced and explored everything Trek likes to pretend never happened. Essentially, it'd be a show about humanity adapting to not only telekenetic superpowers, but also instant teleportion almost anywhere (ST'09/ID) via commbadge-sized transporter (NEM), who never age and are cured of all illness with every transport, who reverse death with Borg nanoprobe technology ("Mortal Coil"), and who can also duplicate themselves at will ("Second Chances") and beam between universes if they do desire (DS9 MU episodes). Halfway to a Q. It wouldn't be much like Star Trek, but it would be interesting to say the least.
It would be interesting to learn if the Q were initially like us and became like gods because of their technology or if they really are a species of superbeings.
Well, not really. The substance was already known to Federation science - heck, even the rather science-illiterate Kirk knew of its powerful properties.
That the substance allowed for telekinesis on a rare planet where there was plenty of it would suggest that the stuff is actually worthless elsewhere or its full range of properties would already be known. It's one of the more easily forgettable "achievements" of our TOS heroes, then.
OTOH, it is our heroes who come up with this intriguing stuff. What if it isn't "humanity" adapting to its existence, but our heroes - a new caste of superbeings, not just head and shoulders above their kinsbeings, but lightyears above? Would they all be assholes like Q, or would there be nuances?
Timo Saloniemi
Maybe becoming assholes comes with the territory. Remember how insufferable Riker became when Q gave him his powers?
there is another thread about head canon - well my head canon is that humans evolve into Q in millions of years, which is why they are so interested in us.
Yes, that's probably true.
You don't understand. If Spock had killed Khan, while not clearly forced to do so, he could have faced charges from the federation. Had he not, it would have seemed weird, people could have argued about it for years. The federation as Spock HIMSELF said earlier does not condone murder. It was much more convenient to have him wanting to kill Khan and at the same time be given a powerful reason not to. That's why it was convenient even if it was obviously false as I have shown earlier. And yes they would have revived one of the popsicles for a few hours to save Kirk.
Plus he really is Khan the mass murderer. You forget about the dozens of innocent people he killed in the beginning of the movie.
Well, as Q points out (The Q and the Grey) : The Q didn't come into existence. The Q have always existed.
However, as that other Q points out (Deathwish): At the beginning of the new era, life as a Q was a constant dialogue of discovery and issues and humor from all over the universe.
These statements aren't necessarily contradictory, but I haven't really worked out for myself how to best reconcile them (though there are some ways to). And that's still ignoring that Q doesn't always tell us what we would consider to be the truth.
And the ones he killed on Earth during his 90's reign. ("No massacres under his rule"? Bullshit.)
Exactly! He has earned that title many times over.
You know, I wrote a long post in response to this.
Then I realised that I was derailing a thread, to continue a fairly off-topic (and well-fucking-worn) disagreement, that nobody else has any interest in reading.
So...deleted.
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Heh, that won't stop everybody...
Assuming Augment blood saves dead people in general. Might be only Khan had that sort of blood. Indeed, since the blood was an integral part of Khan's ploy, might be Khan engineered that into himself while in the 23rd century.
That takes us back to the subject matter, as it's quite plausible that technologies for miracuous resurrection could be available in the 23rd century (as they do exist in the 24th) - but it may take a ruthless superman to make any use of those!
Khan? He killed nobody. He just sold a weapon.
(That aside, it's sort of funny that basically nobody died in a giant explosion at the heart of London. Where were those screams coming from? Apparently everybody on the streets and the buildings above survived the fireball just fine, since the 42 or so dead are covered by the non-innocent extras seen in the Section 31 lair already...)
Timo Saloniemi
Assuming Augment blood saves dead people in general. Might be only Khan had that sort of blood. Indeed, since the blood was an integral part of Khan's ploy, might be Khan engineered that into himself while in the 23rd century.
That takes us back to the subject matter, as it's quite plausible that technologies for miracuous resurrection could be available in the 23rd century (as they do exist in the 24th) - but it may take a ruthless superman to make any use of those!
Khan? He killed nobody. He just sold a weapon.
(That aside, it's sort of funny that basically nobody died in a giant explosion at the heart of London. Where were those screams coming from? Apparently everybody on the streets and the buildings above survived the fireball just fine, since the 42 or so dead are covered by the non-innocent extras seen in the Section 31 lair already...)
Timo Saloniemi
Be my guest.
And I'm nominating cryogenics as the sort-of forgotten key to immortality. We see it actually work and result in successful revivals (and frigging resurrections) at least three times, but apparently everybody decided to just...stop using it when they no longer needed it for travel.
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He killed those 42 people. Why do you assume that they were non-innocent, what did they do that was comparable to what Khan did to them? You sound like you're making a case for mass murder. I am starting to dislike this discussion intently.
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